Embracing OCD: Unveiling the Hidden Gifts and Transformative Treatments with Bryn Murphy

Is it possible to see obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) as more than just a challenge? Bryn Murphy, founder of Blue Raven Family Counseling in Lakewood, Colorado, believes so. In our compelling conversation, Bryn opens up about her journey with OCD, revealing how traits often linked to the disorder have been instrumental in her professional achievements. We tackle the common misconceptions and societal stigma surrounding OCD, highlighting the importance of recognizing the unique gifts it can offer. You’ll gain a comprehensive understanding of how OCD is frequently misdiagnosed and the critical need for improved screening practices.

We also explore the latest advancements in treating OCD, moving beyond traditional methods to incorporate holistic and attachment-focused strategies. Bryn explains the benefits of Exposure Response Prevention (ERP) while advocating for a more integrated approach that includes co-regulation and other therapeutic techniques. Additionally, we discuss the profound impact of OCD on various facets of life, from relationships to personal identity and the necessity of adaptive coping strategies. Through a discussion that emphasizes acceptance and gratitude, we aim to demystify the disorder, reduce stigma, and offer valuable insights and resources for anyone affected by OCD.

Contact Info: Bryn Murphy, LMFT

Email blueravenfamilycounseling@gmail.com
www.blueravenfamilycounseling.com

A Hero's Welcome Podcast © Maria Laquerre-Diego & Liliana Baylon

Chapters

• 0:36 Gifts and Lessons From OCD
• 8:12 Integrating Attachment in OCD Treatment
• 21:25 Understanding and Accepting OCD Journeys

Transcript

Maria Diego: 0:37

Hi listeners, it's Maria and I'm here with my co-host.

Liliana Baylon: 0:41

And that's me, liliana Balan, and we're so excited we're here with our special guest Brie. How do you want to introduce yourself?

Bryn: 0:48

I'm Bryn Murphy and I've got a private practice called Blue Raven Family Counseling in Lakewood Colorado.

Liliana Baylon: 0:55

Thank you. She's so modest in her intro for everyone out there and we're so excited to have you here because you're going to be talking to us about a really important topic. Especially it doesn't matter if you work with adults or children. We tend to see it quite often and it tends to be misdiagnosed yes, Majority of the time. So do you want to tell us about your topic?

Bryn: 1:21

Yes, I would love to talk today about obsessive compulsive disorder, which is abbreviated as OCD, and really just finding the gifts and lessons from the compulsions that people have. I offer the gold standard in OCD treatment to help support reducing OCD symptoms, but I also just want to begin the conversation around recognizing how prevalent it really is and the differences between OCD, anxiety and any other diagnosis that it's commonly misdiagnosed as.

Maria Diego: 1:57

Or even people being flippant of like. Oh, I'm a little OCD about things.

Bryn: 2:02

Yes, we can totally talk about that, because that's one of my biggest pet peeves. Of people will say like, oh, I'm a little OCD, or oh, everyone's OCD, and it's yes, all humans have obsessions and compulsions and rituals, but OCD is a really debilitating diagnosis and it is visceral and it is hard to function every single day with the obsessions and the thoughts and the rituals. And often it is joked as, and that's something that I don't want to do.

Liliana Baylon: 2:36

Yes, absolutely, I love, love that, so let's just even start.

Bryn: 2:40

so, what is the most common because I love how you started which is, even though we skipped right away, you said there's gifts and lessons and rituals yes, so I, um, I'm someone who, um, after 13 years of therapy, um, my therapist doesn't diagnose, but it is very commonly known between the two of us that I have OCD and I've known that my entire life and it's taken a long time into my adulthood to recognize that there are a lot of my OCD that has actually made me very successful, especially in my private practice.

Bryn: 3:18

I'm highly organized, I respond to clients in a very quick, timely manner and my office and my house is beautifully decorated, because that's an important piece of my OCD and without that I don't think I would be as successful and I really consider that something that I never want to dishonor or have it go away. And I really encourage clients to find the positive lessons and the gifts of OCD and we don't often think of it that way because it is kind of a crappy diagnosis and if we could just shine some light on the gifts, I think that's an important thing to do.

Maria Diego: 4:04

I like that shift from it being, you know, a disabling, you know very heavy and it is and it's serving you right. There is something about it that is also fueling your success, for you personally, that you can kind of recognize.

Bryn: 4:23

Absolutely yes, I hold both the not so great pretty awful times that I've had in my life and then also the ooh, I'm actually very successful because of many of these things and I actually don't want to give them up because they do serve a beneficial purpose of my life.

Liliana Baylon: 4:43

Sure, but even that right for all our listeners who either they're therapists or they're working with this population, or a combination of the two, right, the whole idea of can I accept this part of me and can I see the gifts and lessons. There's so much I want to say, even gratitude, as you said it, like there was something my body that went like we're okay and we're welcome. If that part of me is showing up and my therapist is also, is not trying to change it, it's not shaming me, it's not rejecting me, me. It's like let's learn about this part of you. Yes, almost like embrace it.

Bryn: 5:24

Absolutely embrace it and I think that there's because it's also stigmatized in television shows and movies and it's like the you're flipping the light switch, the light switch 50 times and you're, you know, cleaning the dishes a thousand times and like horror movies and things like that.

Bryn: 5:40

That there, that is a part of OCD for some people. But OCD affects everything personally and in your settings and in your relationships, and there's a lot of shame around how it shows up and how it presents. And I mean it's kind of like any other diagnosis that we first have to just name it and accept that it is. And I mean it's kind of like any other diagnosis that we first have to just name it and accept that it is a part of us but it's not the whole of us, right? Like it's just a tiny, or you know, maybe it is a big part of us but it's still only one part. That. How do we then allow it to be us and then move through and find more positive and accepting thought patterns so that when OCD spikes and when it's a heightened episode, it doesn't feel as the world is ending? And I don't want to ever talk about it because I'm going to get laughed at.

Maria Diego: 6:35

Sure, yeah, I think there's still a lot of shame associated with that and I know on a clinician side, I know there's a lot of apprehension of working with someone who comes in with the diagnosis or considering that diagnosis. Why do you think that still is? I?

Bryn: 6:50

think, because there's just so many misconceptions about OCD that there's. I can't speak for all clinicians, obviously, but in my experience I don't think enough clinicians know what questions to ask to screen in or screen out OCD, and so then we actually rob people of the opportunity to share their experiences that if you ask certain questions you might find that instead of generalized anxiety or phobias or eating disorders too, there's actually an OCD component underneath, and potentially that's the diagnosis that's been driving all of the other diagnosis that people are more familiar with and more quickly diagnosed and assessed. For that I think clinicians are wary of the unknown and clients live in such an imaginary, scary, faulty belief world with OCD that I don't know what's real, because it feels very real in my body and it feels so real in my head my brain has mastered the ability to think that my faulty narratives are true, and that's a terrifying thing to have to admit out loud to a therapist that might not know about OCD. And then where do we go from there?

Maria Diego: 8:15

Yes, absolutely.

Liliana Baylon: 8:17

I think it's that right. As you're talking and I'm thinking of past trainings that I have done Definitely in the last two years, I will say probably three I feel like there are certain trainers who are changing the way that they're teaching about OCD. But before, especially when you're a new therapist and you're going for behaviorally, what can I do to change this? Yeah, and that's most of the trainings that we all got. Can we agree on that or am I the only one? Yeah, absolutely, oh, yeah, absolutely. Versus now, the invitation that you're giving to mental health therapists, including paid therapists of, can we assess properly? Can we wander out loud by inviting the client in in regards to you know, how is this getting on the way? What are the gifts Right? How can we embrace this Like? Can we see that and that's feels beautiful because it's inviting that part of you that has been stigmatized or has been an inconvenience for others?

Bryn: 9:20

Yeah, yeah, I mean it's no knock to my therapist because I will always see her.

Bryn: 9:26

I think she's incredible, but from a personal experience I didn't share about my OCD experiences until about eight years into my relationship with her and it has nothing to do with her knowledge or ability to hold that space for me.

Bryn: 9:41

I carried and I'm in the field and I carried so much weirdness and uncomfortability and true shame around openly talking about and sharing the very intrusive, negative thoughts in my head and how it impacted every day, hours of my day and I didn't know where to start. And it is unfortunate that. I mean again, we have the behavioral theories, for a very good reason, and sometimes that is exactly what is needed for certain OCD versions. And then there are other versions of OCD that are very connected to our attachment strategies and the way that our body and mind don't talk to each other, how we get disconnected, and I think it's so crucial to be able to combine all the behavioral components and also the attachment and the experiential and the holistic ways so that when you're replacing these intrusive and yucky symptoms, you are not as afraid that they're going to return with an even bigger force.

Maria Diego: 10:53

Oh, I like that. I like that you had mentioned, too, that you work from the gold standard. So for our listeners, who are still stuck in this behavioral mindset because of our training, what is that gold standard and where can they seek out more information about that?

Bryn: 11:09

Yeah, so I offer what's called exposure response prevention, which is ERP, and it's considered the gold treatment because there's a lot of research that backs up evidence that says that people who go through ERP have a 75% chance of eliminating or reducing OCD. Ocd is a lifelong and chronic diagnosis but it can come and go over time and it can come in waves, and ERP has demonstrated that the waves, when it does return, are pretty minimal, and so all of the behavioral research has truly backed up that. It is a very useful form of treatment for people and a lot of people like it because it is short it's typically about 25 sessions and you initially start with an OCD assessment that just screams in all the different camps of OCD because there's a lot of different versions of it and subtypes of it, and then, after you go through the assessment and you determine am I in one camp or am I actually in all of these camps, and which one feels the scariest, which one do I want to scaffold and start with so that I can feel more prepared and better. Then you go through creating a hierarchy of worst to best scenarios and then from there you create an exposure scale and then this is the scariest part for people which is why people don't want to do this is you intentionally put yourself in anxiety-inducing settings and you expose yourself to the faulty thoughts and the goal is to prove OCD wrong, to trash those beliefs and narratives, and then, after you do that, you do like a relapse, prevention, and then that's it, you terminate. So it is a good treatment.

Bryn: 13:02

In my experience, it also misses the attachment piece because we're saying you have to be anxious, you have to be stressed, you have to be exposed, and the therapist is not allowed to or not supposed to reassure your nervous system and not supposed to help regulate. And so whenever I'm talking to my clients about it, before we do ERP, I think it's important that we have the foundational piece of co-regulation and attachment strategies of why are OCD symptoms coming up? What is the ritual trying to get you to feel, what's the threat that either is real or is perceived in your mind and it feels very real. Once we determine that, what are things that we can naturally soothe our nervous systems with before we go in and just shake it all up?

Liliana Baylon: 13:53

I love that. So, for everyone who's there I don't know if everyone catch this, because I did I was like let me write it down. Rituals are trying to get you to feel something. So even the rituals in the OCD, it's information. Yes, right, like how beautiful our bodies are, they're constantly giving you information and then we tend to get on the way like it's inconvenient, not today, you know what. Don't like this behavior. Go change it. Um, and even as beautifully, as you stated, uh, which is I'm gonna name this all out, I'm gonna keep getting, keep getting crap about it, but it's okay. Yes, I'm pleased with that. But can you stop suggesting in this training that there's only one way of training I love the way that you put it from a narrative, behavioral, holistic, attachment, exposure, like it's all these things to help something, versus just being a purist and this is the only way to do this.

Bryn: 14:57

Which I know I mean in my, in my supervision. When I was going through ERP training I had gotten to some spicy conversations of ah, this feels not like me, it doesn't feel like my language and it doesn't really align with me, but I so see the importance in reframing the cognitive thoughts that we do need the behavioral component with. And it also felt like something is missing because most of my rituals are mental rituals and I think that's where a lot of therapists forget that it's not always visible. There's a lot of invisible, unknown, ocd rituals and the brain is a beautiful and magical organ and it also is scary and it can go in some very dark, twisted places. And who wants to admit the thoughts that we're experiencing and having? And we have to be able to ask questions about the mental rituals, because that consumes the whole soul so often.

Maria Diego: 16:00

Yeah, no, I love that and I think it's. I think it's nice to to just reaffirm that you can do trainings and you can find effective models and then still make it your own models and then still make it your own Totally, yes, absolutely.

Bryn: 16:19

I don't know how to not do that in just life in general, right, like we learned so many different things and some things land and other things go out the window and it doesn't resonate with us.

Bryn: 16:27

But for ERP, I do love the idea of trashing the thoughts because they aren't real, they are not realistic. We spend so much time in a true OCD, imaginary land and it feels visceral and it feels very rooted in facts, but it is not fact. And if we can trash that and have more space to feel safe and secure and connected to ourselves, of course I want to do that and that's why we need the behavioral part with this. But if we can also get comfortable with our own nervous system and attachment strategies and understand that obsessions are the you know reoccurring thoughts and images, but the compulsions are the act of trying to reassure the anxiety, they are amazing. It is truly just trying to reassure us because we're freaking out and we're feeling really anxious. And why not just think that for a little bit and then be like oh, you know what? I'm going to tweak some of these, because some of these are just annoying and time consuming and expensive, and I don't want any more.

Liliana Baylon: 17:35

I love this. How many of you and I think most of the play therapists who have been posting to let us know that they watched the movie Inside Out 2. Yes, we know you have watched it, but the image of the board with anxiety, as you were describing that, that's what's popping in my mind.

Maria Diego: 17:54

Yes, yes, oh, my gosh, well, well, and even just anxiety's overall message, right, like I'm here to help, yeah, I am here to help, you're in my way, let me help. Um, and yes, that image of them being frozen with the storm around, I'm like such a beautiful, like depiction of anxiety. Um, such a beautiful. And you know, I mean every, every one of us, anyone who's listening. We all have anxiety. We all have things that we do to make sure that we keep ourselves safe and reassured and grounded. The difference, it sounds like, is really when it becomes impacting in daily life to a dysfunctional level for many people finally diagnosed with OCD.

Bryn: 18:42

Yes, you're right, we all have anxiety and anxiety lives in our nervous systems for a very good reason. I never want to ignore it. We can just find different ways to speak to it and befriend it. But in terms of OCD, you have to have at least one or more hours per day for it to be that diagnosis. You have to have the O, which is the obsessions, which again are the reoccurring thoughts, images or urges that are intrusive and unwanted. And then you have to have the C, which is the compulsions, and also referred to as rituals, which are the repetitive physical or mental acts that happen in response to the obsession. And that has to be at least one or more hour a day.

Bryn: 19:28

And often OCD is misdiagnosed as generalized anxiety. And when I look at the main criteria of generalized anxiety disorders, there's like three main differences. Because the first criteria for generalized anxiety is that it's excessive worry for everyday concerns. Ocd focuses on very specific. Ocd focuses on very specific catastrophic things. The next one is that the categories of worry are changed. They're interchangeable over time and the ultimate fears with OCD are again specific and consistent. And then the last one is for generalized anxiety. Worry is chronic and throughout the day, but OCD it's triggered by a specific situation and then we avoid that situation to the best of our ability. Avoidance is a really big key with OCD, and it is a key with anxiety too. But there's subtle differences between these diagnosis and I think it's so important that we're just naming the differences, because the treatment is very different.

Liliana Baylon: 20:39

I just love even. How do you compare the two to give us this image of? This is the difference and this is what to look for. Yes, and it sounds like even when you're treating it, one is lifelong. Yeah, so you may not be in therapy all the time. It sounds like you're going to take pauses and then come back when he flares. I'm using the word flares because this will and I think we talk about it, Maria too, right when we did the presentation for dynamic disability. This will apply for dynamic disability when you have these flares. It's so much from you. So, for everyone who's listening to us, we've been talking in the last couple of episodes about dynamic disability and this is one of those diagnosis that I'm going to do it.

Bryn: 21:26

Yes, because it is when it's flared up. It is so time consuming and very debilitating, and it truly affects your relationships, past and future, thinking, eating values, sexual life and intimacy, pets, driving, religion, exercise, schoolwork and just work in general, identities. Pregn, pregnancy and postpartum can be a really big trigger for many people Dreams, health, friends, family, holidays, memories, you name it. It seeps into truly every part of you and it can come up in different ways too, in different subtypes, Like you might be able to heal one subtype and then a trigger comes up and flares again and there's a whole other new subtype and then it's. How do we take what we've learned from previous support and then mix it up again and find a different way to reduce this new version of it? Or do we decide that actually this version is not too bad and I can just recognize that it's getting flared up and it's getting a little elevated, but I'm okay and it's okay to be okay with it too?

Maria Diego: 22:43

Yeah, I think that also goes along with our talk about dynamic disabilities. Right, Our goal we work in a medical model, right? So so the medical model would like us to get rid of all symptoms of said diagnosis. Yeah, Can we all agree that that is garbage. I love my job and I love my license, but like we're going, we are going to have you know, in this case they're going to have OCD. Some of it might be worth accepting and thanking and having gratitude for it's serving us well and we work on reducing the debilitation to the rest of our life and our daily functioning. And this is not something you will physically see happening, Right, and so that's the other piece about invisible illness and dynamic disabilities is like it's not that you have a missing limb that says, oh yes, you have OCD because you are missing your right, specifically your right arm. Right, yeah, this is all happening and if you're close and in an intimate relationship, perhaps you'll see some of the behaviors. But you're saying that a lot of the compulsions are internal, they're mind compulsions.

Bryn: 23:55

Yeah, for many people, and myself included, I do have like very obvious known rituals, but I'm like, okay, my house is beautiful, my house is clean and organized. I can handle the intrusive thoughts that come with that if my house is messy, but it is all internal of. My wheels are constantly spinning and when I go through a flare up moment I often tell myself like whoa, I have just lost myself, I have just gone into this whole other world and what do I need to do to then reconnect to myself? How do I return to who I am in a more full head and heart aligned way, and what has helped me in the past and why is this happening right now? What is it that my OCD is trying to get me? To very clearly pick up on the message it is very obvious when the thoughts go on.

Liliana Baylon: 24:58

Oh my God, I feel like we can keep going and going, and it's getting close to that time where we have to say goodbye. So how can our listeners find you, either to refer clients or call you for consultations?

Bryn: 25:12

Yeah, you can look up Blue Raven Family Counseling. I've got my website. I'm on psychology today, Bryn Murphy, Um, and you can also email or contact me, Um. My Instagram is also blue Raven family counseling, um, and reach out for consultation. Reach out to talk about what questions to ask on your intake. I think that's an even. That's a good start of what am I missing on my intake paperwork? What do I potentially need to add? Or, if there's clients who maybe think that they have OCD or want to explore OCD, then I would love to be able to support them on their journey of finding the gifts and lessons and tweaking what we need to tweak.

Liliana Baylon: 25:53

Oh, beautiful For everyone who's listening. They're panicking because they're like it went too fast. And they're panicking because they're like it went too fast. We will make sure that we have her contact information below. So thank you. I mean, I feel like energized right now. There's so much information. So thank you for being here and thank you for sharing your gifts.

Maria Diego: 26:15

Yes, thank you both. Yeah, thank you, and thank you for demystifying OCD. If nothing else, I hope people are listening and going. Oh, I can stay curious about this. Maybe what I have learned is not what is, you know, gold standard anymore, and perhaps feeling willing to be curious and lean in a little bit.

Bryn: 26:35

Yes, yes, that's that's my biggest hope is that we can remove the stigma. Yes, yes, that's. My biggest hope is that we can remove the stigma. And also, 2.5% of people in their lifetime will have been diagnosed with OCD, which is the size of New York.

Liliana Baylon: 26:49

So, like New York's a pretty big state, it's common Not going to let go of that image anymore.

Maria Diego: 26:56

Of course a lot is going to fall, jammed in that state. I was going to be like everyone in Nework has ocd.

Liliana Baylon: 27:04

Okay, that's what it is. That's why they're always like walking this but that is. That is a nice visual representation of how common, how common this is it's very common so again, thank you um for everyone who's listening again, we will have Prince information in there Until next time. Thank you guys, Thank you.