A Hero's Welcome Podcast
Welcome to the Hero's Welcome Podcast, your ultimate guide to understanding the incredible world of mental health! Join us on this inspiring journey as we delve into the hearts and minds of the unsung heroes behind this transformative therapeutic approach.
Hosted by Maria Laquerre Diego, LMFT-S, RPT-S, and Liliana Baylon, LMFT-S, RPT-S, two dedicated mental health & play therapist advocates with a profound passion for well-being, the Hero's Welcome Podcast is your gateway to unraveling the extraordinary world of mental health.
Join us on this enlightening journey as we spotlight the remarkable contributions of mental health therapists. Our podcast is a dedicated platform for showcasing the profound impact of mental health and emotional well-being. In every episode, we bring you engaging interviews with esteemed experts and seasoned practitioners who share an unwavering commitment to harnessing the healing potential of mental health.
Hosts:
Maria Laquerre-Diego
maria@anewhopetc.org
Liliana Baylon
liliana@lilianabaylon.com
A Hero's Welcome Podcast
🎙️ Bonus Episode: Creating Your Professional Will; Ensuring Continuity and Care with Cathy Wilson
Do you have a professional will to safeguard your clients and practice? Join us for an eye-opening conversation with Cathy Wilson, a Colorado counselor who guides mental health professionals through preparing these crucial documents. Cathy shares her journey and the chaos following the loss of colleagues that inspired her to create workshops, a book, and an online course to help others navigate this often-overlooked necessity. Liliana Baylon, one of our co-hosts, recounts her transformative experience with Cathy's workshop, emphasizing the need for specific considerations based on credentials, like ensuring a bilingual colleague can step in if needed.
Procrastination and fear of confronting mortality are common challenges, but Cathy explains why a professional will is essential, particularly for clinicians dealing with chronic illness or planning extended absences. This episode covers the vital need for someone to manage professional responsibilities during those times, whether due to health-related issues or sabbaticals. We discuss the multifaceted purpose of these documents in maintaining client care and communication, stressing the importance of planning to protect personal and professional interests.
Preparing for the unexpected can feel daunting, but Cathy's expertise offers a roadmap for peace of mind and continuity. We explore the practical side of organizing a professional will, from choosing a professional executor to maintaining an accessible calendar with client information. Building a community of clinicians prepared for life's uncertainties is more than just a safety net; it's a profound act of care for clients and colleagues. Cathy's collaboration with attorney Julie Jacobs showcases the thoroughness of her resources, inspiring you to take proactive steps towards a secure professional future.
A Hero's Welcome Podcast © Maria Laquerre-Diego & Liliana Baylon
Hello listeners, Welcome to another episode of a Heroes Welcome podcast. Welcome to this very special bonus episode. I'm your co-host, Mariela Cardiego, and I'm here with my co-host.
Speaker 2:That's me, liliana Bailon, and we're here with a special guest that we've been like chasing to bring her in, and her name is Kathy. Kathy, how do you want to formally introduce yourself?
Speaker 3:Thank you so much, first of all, for having me on here. I listened to a couple episodes and I love what you're doing, so but I'm Kathy Wilson, I'm a counselor and I'm based in Littleton Colorado, and I've been doing this for since 2005. I can't do the math, and in the past seven to eight years, I have developed the specialty in the area of professional wills and created a workshop, first for colleagues, and then wrote a book on the topic that's called One Last Act, and then I created an online course that does very much what the workshops did, which is walk you through the process of filling out this document, because I have a free template that comes with it and walks you through it. The whole reason I did it was to make it easier, because most of us don't get this done, and we should.
Speaker 2:So that's how I met Kathy. I am an LMFT, same as Maria, and when I heard about Kathy doing this, I signed up for her workshop and then, as I was filling it out, I realized that, as an MFT, I needed to have an MFT. And then, because I'm bilingual and most of my clients speak Spanish, I realized that I needed someone who speaks Spanish. So Kathy helped me organize all of this and found two individuals for me that keep on giving. When I pick the bucket, they will take over, but anyways, so that's what we want to talk about today. Professional wheels have heard, either in your master's program or in any training that you have done, independently of the credential, that you have to have a professional will. So why don't we start with that, kathy? How do you start it with the idea of the professional will and how that works? Right?
Speaker 3:right. So I personally do not recall it being part of my grad program at all. I have no memory of that and granted, it was a while ago, but when I first learned of needing to have a professional will, it was around about 2014 or so, and I learned that in a consultation group, someone brought it up and I said, huh, what's that Right? I just had no idea, and then understood quickly the importance of it and I still procrastinated getting that done. That was a pretty difficult process, but then in 2017, a close colleague passed away, and another colleague and I we and her name is Denya Denya and I had to step in and just kind of figure it out, flying by the seat of our pants, trying to prioritize the most important piece, which was first notifying clients, because he had all, by the time we knew he had already had five or six people come to his office. Wait a while. He didn't show and they left and they didn't know why.
Speaker 3:So, and that was pretty painful for quite a few of his clients, it still didn't quite motivate me enough to actually sit down and do it, even though it was a painful process without it. And then, september of the following year, I lost another colleague, and that's what did it for me. Again, same kind of situation where people were finding out on Facebook and it was just really difficult for many, many of her clients and colleagues, and so that was the catalyst to where I finally got my own done, and it was so difficult to find the information I needed. That's what where the workshops were born and the whole process started.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I appreciate your honesty in in in how you got to where you are because, yeah, I mean, we've unfortunately all of us right we have been touched, even just on the periphery of like someone passing in our profession, and we kind of know about the fallout, but it's never been enough to be like, okay, we should actually do something about this. And I was sharing before we hit record. I've been on this, I've been on this search for like two plus years. I'm like I can't find what I'm looking for. I think you know, and part of the little talk that we've done so far is like, oh, I was looking in all the wrong places possibly and looking for something that I didn't need or didn't exist. So I think this is really, really important and it has been really difficult. This is not an easy thing to just find someone who can help walk you through this process until Liliana introduced me to you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and that is really the beauty of the workshops, the book and now the online course, is it? What I do first in that is walk you through the decisions that you need to make and the things to consider, so you can start that part and get the information pulled together that you need. You can start that part and get the information pulled together that you need, and then I walk you through the template to fill it out and put things where they belong. You can also do that with an attorney in reality, but an attorney can't make those decisions for you, and that is the part that I can't. I haven't found another course or book or anything that talks about those pieces.
Speaker 2:So, no, no. So yeah, when I took Kathy's workshop, I literally went to her location. We fill it out and then I walk away and she notarized it for me. So, like I walk away. But in the decision that she's talking about is, depending on your credential. You may have a specific requirements. As I mentioned before, as an MFT, we are required to have an MFT, so check with your association to make sure what is it that is required for you believe it or not that they do have these things there and then start thinking of what other credentials that you have we were Kathy and I were talking about earlier, like what is the specialty that you have that you may need to have a particular individual that can match that, just to help you in that process. If you don't have that, think about the story that Kathy was sharing, which is, if you're sharing a space, if you know, if it's a colleague, if it's a supervisee, if it's like whatever it is, clients coming in and no one notifies them, like what would that be like for them? Which is like a secondary trauma, I imagine.
Speaker 2:And what do we do? How do we log in? How do we share? What do we have to do? So Kathy has this beautiful template in order to walk you through Mine. I keep updating it because I change passwords in a specific page that I have. I changed, you know. So I have that and then instructions that I have in order for, if something happens to me, my husband knows where to go click what is the person that they need to contact and then give that person.
Speaker 2:By the way, my two people, the way that I encounter them I don't think I share this with you, kathy is I call them and say do you want the gift? Then keep on. Then keep on giving. And they started laughing and I said because there's a lot of giving there. Um, you get to decide what kind of giving, but it's a lot of giving, um, so I contact them and I said if something happens to me, will you be willing to take over, notify? You get to decide.
Speaker 2:You get to offer to clients if they want to work with you. You get to like, you get to do all of this. And, uh, for me, both of them automatically said yes. So I was like and I can do that for you? Um, like, just let me know. And. And then they got a copy of my will so that they know exactly what to do and what to expect. So what else? Do you have any questions, maria, for Kathy? Or what else should we share Kathy? Because, like this is huge again, I've been in the field for too many years. Also, I don't want to do the math, but neither either my licensure or my credentials have ever talked about this.
Speaker 1:No, I think I've heard of it like in passing, in consultations generally after something tragic has happened in the community, right, but it's not. It should be part of, like, the beginning process, right, of having a practice, and I'm thinking, you know, does that? Do I have one for my clinical practice? Do I have one for the group practice? Do I have to have another for, like the nonprofit we've just launched, like I know it's necessary and I can only imagine how helpful it is for when we're in our own grief and loss state. Right, these are people we are going to be connected to and that we have a connection to. So, you know, if something happens, having a template to be like okay, here's, step by step, these are what I need to do, just sounds like so necessary but also just so relieving in that moment, absolutely it is, and I agree, the grief that you feel because this was a friend, not you know.
Speaker 3:Frequently it's not just a colleague, it's someone you cared about and had become close with, and that's not always the case, but when it is that grief is very much in the way. And so to have a guide to help you find a person's calendar, to help you find where do they keep their client's contact information, those kind of things, instead of scrambling while you're crying while you're, you know, having a hard time accepting that this happened yourself, and so having that guide make it easier also helps you be present for the clients that you need to notify, because that also brings up your own grief.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, I can only imagine so starting. It sounds like one starting point is to really give consideration to who you have in your circle as possible contacts and possible links.
Speaker 3:What else is a big consideration for clinicians as they start looking at this process is a big consideration for clinicians as they start looking at this process, I would say that a big consideration is one of the roadblocks that keeps us from doing it.
Speaker 3:So one of the roadblocks that's minor and I can just mention it and we all get it, is procrastination. There's no hard and fast deadline on this, at least not that we are aware of, because we don't know the future, and so right. And so we procrastinate it because there isn't anything pressing for us to get it done. But the big roadblock for many of us is having to contemplate our own death, because embedded in all of this process is this idea that we're all mortals, we're all going to die and for some of us, picturing what happens afterwards is so difficult. And this didn't happen in the workshop you attended, liliana, but I had a few people over the year or so that I was I guess I was doing that two years before the pandemic I had a few people just say you know what? I can't do this right now. I'm going to go and, you know, maybe I'll attend a workshop in the future when I feel more prepared to think about my own death.
Speaker 1:And so I appreciate that perspective, because Liliana and I and our listeners know if you've listened to at least one of our episodes like we deal with chronic illness, and so I think we are constantly thinking about death and what happens when we are no longer around, perhaps more so than those not struggling with a daily reminder that we are very much mortal and that our time here is precious and limited.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and it isn't. The purpose of a professional will is for more than if we suddenly die. It's also for if you have a chronic illness. You've been thinking about this. If you get ill enough that you can't work and you are really not able to call your clients and let them know and get them referred, you need someone to step in and do that for you in that event as well, and a topic that came up in a Facebook group recently was the idea of an extended absence. So someone who takes a sabbatical and they're out of the country, reaching them is difficult and they certainly can't get to their records from there, and so there's a need to have someone to step in then, and so a professional will can actually serve so many purposes in that respect. I appreciate you bringing up chronic illness, because that's important too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I mean it's definitely on Liliana's and I's radar and something that we talk about quite often. And we also know, especially in this day and age, there are so many new things that come out and can suddenly, you know, we we were talking in another group recently about the effects of long COVID and cognitive abilities and how, you know, we were processing about a local clinician ourselves who, you know, suddenly struggled with cognitive awareness and like wasn't able to make some of those decisions. It was a short-term process for them but it was really like who can, who can we get to step in and contact clients and contact, you know, return emails or whatever the case might be, and alert those that need to know that it's going to be a minute before she can get back to them.
Speaker 3:Right, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So the idea of this bonus podcast is for all of you who are listening and start thinking. One, who do you want to give this gift of being stressed and coming out? I'm just kidding. Who do you want to give this gift? And then two, can we put this in order? No one wants to see this Again.
Speaker 2:If you have listened to us, you know that Maria and I talk about this not because we're looking forward to kicking the butt, but because we want to make sure that we're prepared, the same way that we have a wheel, that we have, like we wanted to do it in the professional side. What will that be? Especially if you're working with kids. Yes, for all of you play therapists out there. If something happens to you, can you imagine the kiddos come in for a session and if we don't prepare a script or something for the other one to share with the families, like that can be traumatic by himself. By the way, for all of you who are listening, that's my line. Every time that I go to the doctor, I was like I work with kids, help me get better. This is what's happening and and it's funny, but it's not I need to be emotionally prepared of how, so the imitation of of this podcast, want to introduce you to Kathy because she holds these workshops to let's start thinking. No one wants to think about that here in the United States. We and I say here because other countries are different, but here in the United States we have this mentality of there's a pregnancy.
Speaker 2:We prepare, we celebrate, we graduate. Hopefully you celebrate it. Right, you got your license. Hopefully you also celebrate it. But in that, the preparation of, hopefully you also celebrate it. But in that the preparation of, you need professional insurance, you need general liability, you need CEs, you also need the professional will. This is a must. If you have attended any of my supervision workshops, I talk about this a lot. I have not tagged Kathy on it and I should, but we just need it. We need to have a plan of while our loved ones, our colleagues, our friends are going through the grief. Can we have a template that it will be easy to do, a checklist of what is it that they need to do in that case arise, which we're talking about? It will, but when that case doesn scenario arise like what is it that you can do? Right, right.
Speaker 3:And that I mean the professional will, is very much a checklist.
Speaker 3:And the way I've organized it is, these most important pieces are right up front. Where's your calendar? Where's your calendar? Where is the contact information for your clients? Where are your records, so that you can know who you're talking to enough that you can tailor that conversation to that person as much as possible? Because it does take some time. And I kind of want to step back and address a little bit of what you said about choosing a professional executor the gift that keeps on giving.
Speaker 3:I love that reframe Right, right, and I do think people have difficulty choosing someone because they feel like they're asking the person to take on a burden, and that's true. You are asking the person to take on a burden At the same time if you tell them I need this and so I'm prepared. I've put this information together. Here's where it is to make this as easy as possible. That is a great selling point, to some extent right, the possibility that the person may be able to work with additional clients. That is also a benefit to them, and they may not feel capable of doing that, and that's obviously their choice and the client's choice afterwards. But that is potentially something that alleviates the burden a bit, but in reality it is, and there's a lot at stake, I think, with that burden. It's extremely important to take on that role and be the one to deliver the news to clients, to deliver your message perhaps if you have included that for your clients.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, no, I think that that you know it is such a mindful act because, yes, we, you know there, there is that burden. It also then brings up their own mortality. Right, just asking, you know a professional executor? Hey, would you be? You know it's? It's similar to like doing a personal will of like, hey, if something happens to me, can you step in and take care of the kids and like, manage you know things for me? That immediately brings up their own mortality. Um, and so I'm wondering if, because I can, I can see it happen like a chain reaction of like someone you know going through a workshop with you or doing the online recording, asking someone, and then that perhaps that person is then prompted to do their own and either reciprocate responsibility or kind of a trickle down effect and creating communities of well-prepared clinicians.
Speaker 3:Right. I love that idea. It feels a little like a pay it forward thing, right and it is. It feels like an arduous task A lot of times, when you just think about the process of putting this information together. It is the ultimate act of care for your clients, though, isn't it Right?
Speaker 3:It's your final and that's why and I didn't think of the title for my book one of the people that attended my workshop did but that one last act. It is your one last act of deep, extreme care for your clients yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1:So I'm wondering how, how long would it take from, like, start to finish? If someone is like, okay, I'm going, I'm putting it on my to do list, I'm gonna do it in quarter four, like how long is it would they expect to take from start to finish?
Speaker 3:That is a great question and of course it does depend on how simple versus complicated your situation is. And so a solo practitioner you know their demographics of their client are all pretty similar, so it's you know a lot of clinicians would be able to step in and take on that burden, take care of those clients. From that point, that professional will might be short. Oh, and the business as well. You have to consider what happens to my business afterwards, and so if the business is just being dissolved because it was just you, you know, doing your important work, then sure, that's probably a couple of hours. I'm going to say, and that's task work, writing information together, et cetera.
Speaker 3:It's really difficult to quantify all the thinking time that goes into it, as you can consider who do I ask to step in here and the other considerations that come up as you prepare. So, like for many of us, I didn't have a central location to put my passwords until I thought, huh, no one would be able to get into my stuff if they don't know all these passwords, and so that was so those kind of things, pulling the information together, that may add a lot of time. However, it's also easy to chunk that up and just say, ok, this week I'm going to get my passwords figured out. Next week I'm going to think about all the people that could be my executor and reach out to a few and see what they say. So, so there's that. And then, of course, the more complicated your business is, your demographics of your clients are, then that's going to add time. So two hours is best case scenario. Just add time after that. But it is chunkable time Absolutely.
Speaker 2:But it is chunkable time, absolutely yeah. So what?
Speaker 2:I will add here is that the method that I have applied, like when you said quarter level, like oh, it's the business-like thing, but every year I use simple practice. I will share that. So every year I go and duplicate, for example, the disclosure statement and then I add the year and then I send it to everyone In case if I change something in my credentials, or just as a standard practice. Every year I sit down and I block a week where I go and check everything that is related to my business and then I update passwords. So it's that in my calendar it's a red reminder, like I color coded everything in my calendar for everyone who's out there.
Speaker 2:When I die, you're gonna. When I die, you're gonna know how OCD I am about all this. But it's that reminder of every year I have to go and update. And then I have a folder in my system with very limited information for my hubby to get in and just contact those people and then it's a folder that I have that I keep updating so that he knows who to give. In my case I will share, as Kathy was sharing, because I'm a solo practitioner is how to donate the furniture, how to donate my toys. That's right people. When I die, they're going to be donated. Good luck. Like how to get rid of my books.
Speaker 1:Like all of these things. Oh, I'm coming for your library, there's no doubt.
Speaker 2:In order. Everything is like set up so that even my hubby knows what to do and how to assist. I will shout out to Marisol, who's my Spanish speaking therapist in Colorado, who she says yes, without actually like knowing what she was getting into until, like, we talk more. And then Amanda, who is an MFT plate therapist like all the credentials that I have she said yes, and I was like, perfect, let's, let's put you here, um, and then we talk like is that information still relevant in those check-ins that we do? So Amanda knows that when I say like hey, let's go for lunch, um, we're having a conversation, just to update and see, like, what's happening. So, so for all of you, this is a simple way of me tracking. What do I need to do? What do I need to update? Who needs to know of those updates?
Speaker 1:Love that, love that, yeah, and I think too, you know, again, I think we're more used to having these types of conversations but I think it also just needs to be normalized within our profession, right like we, you know, we've, even in just in the last couple of months, right this year alone, we've had several, you know, like really prominent figures in our, in our different disciplines pass away, you know, being able to be like we just need to normalize this, right, we just need to normalize this. It's another piece, whether it's like your business insurance, your liability insurance. You know you just need to normalize this. It's another piece, whether it's like your business insurance, your liability insurance. You know you just need to. This needs to be in your toolbox and it and it doesn't need to wait any longer than it already has.
Speaker 3:Right, I agree, and that's interesting. That was where I wanted to make sure we talk about how important it is to get people talking about this topic. It is not talked about enough. Now, some states in the United States require that you have this as part of your licensure. So the board in the state requires that you have a professional will. I don't know that they check that, but you have to at least say yes, I have it and maybe they do, but yeah, at least one. I don't know if I said the state, it's Oregon. Oregon requires that, of course, oregon, right, right, but it is. It's not talked about very frequently. I see conversations pop up on Facebook every once in a while and I'll join in and add my two cents I have. I have a lot more than two cents to share with people about this topic, but the lad you know I'll make a comment to address whatever question someone has and and so the word spreads little by little, but it is apparently a difficult topic for many of us to contemplate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like it's not that we want to go to this dark side and for all of you to start thinking about it, but can we? I love that. The one last act, can we actually talk when we're talking about care of ourselves and care of our clients? That's less worry that you have, even though, like you know, when you passed away, like who cares, you're dead, but that's the last care. I'm never gonna stop being this playful, but you know, like how do you take care of that?
Speaker 2:And Kathy is providing us a simple way of thinking about this, making community about it, so that we don't feel lonely. And when Maria was talking about OK, so do I need one for my agency? Do I need one for my nonprofit? The answer is yes to all of that. We need preparation. So start contemplating. We will add to the podcast Kathy's information website, email and workshops that she had for you to contact her. And let's just make it easy. Let's talk about this the same way that we talk about CEs, the same way that we talk about credentials, the same way that we talk about, you know, whatever it is in our field. Let's talk about how, how we're going to prepare for the one last act.
Speaker 3:Yes, oh, I love that you said that perfectly.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Yeah, and I think you asked this one I thought of myself, thank you. I was going to say she has her moments and then she has moments where she forgets we're recording. But, kathy, I just want to say thank you for taking your own experiences and turning it into such a teachable moment and being willing to like share this information with the rest of our professions, because you know, as I said before, I can't even find an attorney in my area who has a specialty or any experience in mental health that's willing to talk about walking me through this process. So, yeah, I'm hoping that we I mean, I'm going to be signing up for as soon as we are finished but I'm hoping that we funnel a lot more people your way, because I think I can just imagine being on the other side and having this done, just feeling the sense of like security and release, instead of it being like one more thing on that, never ending to do list.
Speaker 3:Right, Right, and speaking of attorneys, Julie Jacobs is a Colorado attorney and she worked so closely with me in preparing the workshops to begin with, and then the book and then the online workshop as well, and she was invaluable in that process. But if you have the decisions made and you want say you don't want to fill this all out and you want to have an attorney, just do it for you. You still have to make those decisions right, and so you can go to your attorney with the decisions all made, and I have also had one person tell me that when they took my template to their attorney, they said, huh, this is pretty complete. I'm not sure that I need to add anything to this, and that was really awesome to hear that kind of endorsement from an attorney in a different state, entirely from us. So the workshop does really help with that as well. It's really the how you know, walking you through exactly. You know how you make these decisions and what your options might be as well, and you know that's it.
Speaker 2:That's it so simple, such an important topic.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I am making it sound so simple.
Speaker 2:No, honestly, it was for me. Yeah, you have no idea, I was able to get all that information. It took me a couple hours, like you mentioned, maybe because I was on the phone quite a bit and I talk on the phone quite a bit um, but then, once I went with you, like it was all in, um, I printed it and then, um, you notarize it for me, like, like, it was so easy to do and I think that.
Speaker 1:I think it is simple. When you know what you need to know right, it feels really big and scary when you don't know right. You know there's this thing you need but you can't seem to find the support or clear answers, and Google can only get you so far. But I think you know you've presented it in such a way that makes it easy and clear and step-by-step, so that it doesn't have to be so scary. It does feel doable, even in bite-sized chunk pieces. Um then, to have this, you know, a result that not only do you feel good about, but you've had outside endorsement going like no, this is solid and you would be well taken care of if this is what you have for the people who are going to be your executors.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and you alluded to something that is a thing for me throughout my life. I really dislike the idea of what do I not know that I don't know, idea of what do I not know that I don't know. It can stall me out immediately. This idea of how much don't I know here to do, and that is this workshop absolutely addresses that. It covers more topics than any one person is going to need, and so you know there's parts you can skip over. If you don't have a group practice, you can skip that part right, but it covers many, many topics. As I've been doing this the past oh, my goodness, six years, now almost seven, and I've, you know, gathered all of this information. So for other people that have that thing, like I do, then it it can alleviate that You're you're considering all the possibilities.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you, kathy, for coming in and sharing your wisdom. Uh, listeners, please reach out to Kathy, be prepared, um, if you want to get her book, uh, the one last act, get it. But definitely attend tour workshop. Please be prepared. Let's all be prepared, um, so that our clients have a different experience when you kick the bucket.
Speaker 3:That was a great ending. Thank you both. I appreciate you having me here so much. This has been a great conversation. I've had a good time with that too.
Speaker 1:Thank you, kathy, and we'll keep you in the loop. We'll drop all of our information below and until next time, listeners, thanks, take good care of you.
