A Hero's Welcome Podcast
Welcome to the Hero's Welcome Podcast, your ultimate guide to understanding the incredible world of mental health! Join us on this inspiring journey as we delve into the hearts and minds of the unsung heroes behind this transformative therapeutic approach.
Hosted by Maria Laquerre Diego, LMFT-S, RPT-S, and Liliana Baylon, LMFT-S, RPT-S, two dedicated mental health & play therapist advocates with a profound passion for well-being, the Hero's Welcome Podcast is your gateway to unraveling the extraordinary world of mental health.
Join us on this enlightening journey as we spotlight the remarkable contributions of mental health therapists. Our podcast is a dedicated platform for showcasing the profound impact of mental health and emotional well-being. In every episode, we bring you engaging interviews with esteemed experts and seasoned practitioners who share an unwavering commitment to harnessing the healing potential of mental health.
Hosts:
Maria Laquerre-Diego
maria@anewhopetc.org
Liliana Baylon
liliana@lilianabaylon.com
A Hero's Welcome Podcast
Exploring Disability-Responsive Play Therapy with Joey Tapia
Join us for an enlightening conversation with Dr. Joey Tapia, a distinguished counselor education and therapy expert, as we dissect the nuances of disability-responsive practices in play therapy. Have you ever wondered how to make therapeutic spaces accessible for all truly? Joey enlightens us on the critical need for mental health professionals to broaden their understanding beyond the visible aspects of disabilities, acknowledging the challenges families face in navigating therapy. This episode promises to challenge your preconceptions and push you towards a more inclusive practice.
We wrestle with the invisible biases that exist within an ableist society, urging therapists to unlearn attitudes that might hinder their effectiveness. The discussion sheds light on the importance of centering therapeutic practices on the genuine needs of families rather than a paternalistic savior complex. Reflecting on how we present ourselves online as professionals is more than just branding—it's a commitment to inclusivity and empowerment. Joey's insights serve as a beacon for mental health practitioners striving to support clients authentically.
Accessibility and advocacy take center stage as we explore how therapists can actively contribute to a more informed and inclusive society. Through a social model of disability, we emphasize the need for humility and the value of continuous learning. The episode closes with a powerful reminder of the human element at the heart of helping professions. With practical steps and recommended resources, like Rhonda Oken's "Disability Affirmative Therapy," we hope to inspire you to foster an environment of grace, intentionality, and growth in your practice.
A Hero's Welcome Podcast © Maria Laquerre-Diego & Liliana Baylon
Welcome listeners. Welcome back for another episode of a Heroes Welcome podcast. I'm your co-host, maria LaCara-Diego, and I'm here with one of my favorite superheroes, my co-host Liliana.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought you were going to say Joy and I was like whatever. Hey, what's going on everyone? This is Liliana Baila and we are here with Joy. Joy, how do you want to introduce yourself to our audience?
Speaker 3:I'm Joey Tapia.
Speaker 2:Hello, hello, joey. What are your credentials for everyone?
Speaker 3:Yes, I have a PhD in counselor education and supervision, licensed as a professional counselor in Colorado and in Texas and a supervisor. I'm a certified rehab rehabilitation counselor, registered play therapist and a national certified counselor. And, lastly, I'm a certified supervisor and trainer for child-centered play therapy and child-parent relationship therapy.
Speaker 2:Look at you so many initials after your name.
Speaker 3:So many.
Speaker 1:Gotta catch them all right.
Speaker 3:But do they mean anything at the end of the day? I don't know.
Speaker 2:They do. You work really hard for them, they do. That's why I wanted to make sure that you named them. And, like you're so young, I remember when I first met you and I was like shut up, just shut up. So, Joey, what are we going to talk about today?
Speaker 3:Today we're going to talk about just what I call disability responsive practices in play therapy, in the work we do with children. When we often think about culturally responsive practice, often disability identity is not necessarily always considered. Sometimes it's left out of the discussion. It's often other, minoritized identities, and a lot of my work centers around disability responsive ways to better do what we do as clinicians and play therapists and counselors, and so, yeah, that's what we're doing.
Speaker 2:Thank you, and thank you for naming that, because we're being very vocal in regards to when we're talking about culture. It's not just ethnicity or race. There's so many groups that come into it, and I love that you've been doing specifically this kind of work for 14 years. That's a long time. Still Keep thinking of your age, oh my God and you've been doing this for so long. So tell us, what is something that mental health therapists should pay attention when working with this population? What should they consider or be curious about?
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, there's so many things to consider. One, I think the first thing we need to name is that we live in an ableist society. The world wasn't built for disabled people, and so I should name too, as we talk about this, I'm a non-disabled person doing disability research, and so for me it's always important to consider how am I including other disabled voices in the work that I do? The majority of the work that I do is qualitative in nature, and so, outside of my clinical work in terms of research, figuring out what their voice is and what are the actual gaps and needs, so that we get to do what we do better, especially when we say we serve the community, well, what does it actually mean if our spaces are not accessible, if our playrooms are not accessible, et cetera? And so I think one of the first things we should consider is just our own connection to how we make sense of our understanding of disability.
Speaker 3:Often, when we think about it, folks often associate that to be physical, someone with a physical disability, and it goes way beyond that. Right, we go beyond, into more non-visible disabilities that we may never learn about, and or, if we do, we may not necessarily know how to navigate in the therapeutic space, and often we have families who may have children that are disabled and they often don't know how to navigate the space with their own children. So I think that's just an important consideration that we must pay attention to. An important consideration that we must pay attention to we can't ignore our own internal biases that we just carry because we live in an ableist society.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, that was a lot right. I was like, oh my God, it seems like this is part two, after we had Marshall talking about racism, but I love that you started with. Part of my work is doing disability research in regards to how, how do we provide services? How are we thinking of our spaces? How are we thinking about the playroom, especially when the majority of us think about disability of something that is physical and we don't think about dynamic disability, we don't think about those invisible disabilities that show up and there's no trainings on how to help this population either.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, they're very limited and they're sometimes so focused on a particular area, domain of work. I'm trying to find the word. What is the word? Discipline? That's it, yes. And so finding ways to bring that into the mental health space because, unfortunately, unfortunately, we do contribute to a list of messages that clients receive, and it's unfortunate that we're the ones that are providing a safe place and also the ones that are causing harm.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 1:I'm wondering if you could maybe list out some of those for our listeners who might still this might still be very new to them. Well, liana and I talk about this quite a bit and we've had conversations with others, but we also recognize, especially after our talk with Marshall and our keynote, that this is still very much a new concept for a lot of people to view themselves in this way, to acknowledge that we're living in an ableist society and that they have internal ableism. What are some things that, just off the top of your head, might be of note or consideration for a therapist who's brand new to this information?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think the first thing is to approach it with humility, right, I'm not here to say you're a terrible human for thinking this. It's happened for a reason, right, but being aware of it now we can do something with it, and so for me, it's important to just be. I think it starts with the reflective component of can you just sit with yourself and just think about the ways in which you may perpetuate and or organize your views about disabled people, right, what is that? What comes up for you? What do you? Uh, what messages just seem to be very apparent that may have been taught to you by others, that may have been shown to you in other ways, um, and to sit and wrestle with that, right, for a little bit and just really be able to unpack that as okay. Well, how can I unlearn this and relearn what it means to be more responsive to this community in a way that is not perpetuating, and so some of the ways that I think about that is when we think about our therapeutic space.
Speaker 3:We have the privilege to ask questions that most humans don't ask other humans, and so, when I'm thinking about working with families, when I'm working with kids and their parents, and I say parents.
Speaker 3:Parents to me is anyone who has authority over the child, and so I'm using it very broadly.
Speaker 3:When I think about who has authority or who the parents are and I'm meeting with them, I'm considering how I'm asking questions. You know, sometimes we get very, as humans, we get very curious about someone's abilities rather than leaning into the therapeutic necessity of my questions. So I want to think about what am I asking clients? What am I asking parents about their child? That I wouldn't ask another parent if their child was not disabled, right? Am I just super curious because I don't know much about that world, I don't know much about this disability that I'm maybe just overstepping with some of my questions that are more curious in nature than therapeutically necessary. And so I encourage folks to think about that because that often again, if parents are actually working super hard to center their child, all their identities they hold and really advocate for them, the last thing we need to do is show them that another provider is seeing their child in a negative, in a deficit oriented way, and not not showing up in a in a way that's more responsive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:I think it was Dr Robert Grant right, who told us most children that come to therapy don't come because of their disability. They come because they need help in other areas. So I love that you're saying are we asking questions to be curious and are we focusing on the deficit versus what the family needs from us? And how are we learning in order to provide services to this family, especially when in the play therapy world we tend to say broadly, right, we serve everyone. I'm like, can you really serve everyone? Do you really do trainings on everything? But we have this fantasy that we can. Whether that actually stepping into what you're inviting us to not only talk about but to be curious about, what does that really mean?
Speaker 3:Totally and, as you mentioned, that's something that was coming up is because we again, as humans, have this.
Speaker 3:Depending on how you're raised, in the environment that you emerged in, we may have this tendency to want to do for right those in need or those that need help. Hello, we're all helpers, so we want to help. Well, sometimes, as therapists, we lean a little too hard with specific clients, and so I would encourage you to also consider who are those clients and if those are disabled kids, why not do that for everybody? Why just them? And so, considering the savior complex that we sometimes get into, and instead of taking power from them, how can we empower them and empower families that are going to have to navigate the space every single day outside of their time with you, that are going to have to navigate the space every single day outside of their time with you, where we're not taking on more because we feel like we have to, that no one else will if we don't Instead, having conversations with those that are actually involved with this child, involved with the family, to support them long-term.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that You're giving giving an example. Can you give another example of what you mean by like disability? Responsive practice for mental health?
Speaker 3:yeah, so it starts with our websites. Uh, so it's down to like, the basics when we think about what, how we organize our professional identities out there. Often, we all have our cute websites. They have all these features and do all these things, but often they're not accessible, and so there's actual platforms that can scan your websites to see if it's accessible. Often the domain what is it called? Like Squarespace.
Speaker 3:Yes, thank you, thank you. They often have accessibility checkers that you can activate to see if your website's accessible, because, again, let's say, the child's not disabled, the parents might be, and so how are we supporting just everyone getting access? So it starts with the website and then it also starts with how you describe your space and so often, especially if you're serving folks on insurance, you get asked on a form is your space accessible? And you select if it has a ramp, if there's railing, et cetera, but that's pretty much it. It doesn't ask how many steps are there that they have to navigate. It doesn't ask how big the door there that they have to navigate. It doesn't ask how big the doorways are. Is furniture movable, like? None of those things are listed. Is lighting adjustable, and so all of that we can list on our website. It can just be like here's my space, right. Like we'll often you see folks with pictures of their playrooms, pictures of their office arrangement. Well, in addition to that, we can add here's how wide my doorway is. My lighting is adjustable, my furniture is movable, right. There may be folks who may use some mobility device that may take up space power wheelchairs.
Speaker 3:I work at a hospital right now working with spinal cord and brain injury patients and their power wheelchairs are large, larger than manual chairs, and so can we just make sure that when we say we're providing accessible services and or just services to the community, that we're actually speaking to everyone? Additionally, when we think about our just decor, we love cute stuff, we love the cute stuff, and is it too much stuff? Is it sensory overload? Right? So am I able to adjust my space, even though it's for us? Ultimately, we're there creating and holding the space for clients, and so if I need to move things around or remove things, I'll do that. Why not? If it's going to get in the way of therapeutic work, let's prevent that from happening. Additionally, when it comes to the playroom we want to, it depends on the communities that you're serving.
Speaker 3:When I think about I work with the deaf and hard of hearing community, and so when I look at the toys that I have, I'm looking at how can I get other things besides cell phones? Can I get dolls with hearing aids? Can I get just fake hearing aids, toys, miniatures that are representative of other disabled people, ensuring that I have access to those, ensuring that some of my puppets, when we think about just some of the toys that we utilize, that we have actual finger manipulation puppets. Sometimes we have to make those or modify them or attach Velcro to a glove that attaches to the puppet so that they can still use the puppet in play, but use it in communicating in their natural language.
Speaker 3:And so those are a few things right, and so I'm going to jump back to the website stuff. So when I think about my images too, I'm going to include an alt text description of my space. For those of you who don't know what that is, it is a description of the image. It is for folks who may have low vision or blindness, that may need to, that are trying to assess your services. It gives them a sense of what images you're providing.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow, wow. I mean honestly, I didn't even think of some of the stuff that you're mentioning right now and I'm like, oh shit, I'm going to have to go check my website and my room again.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's a constant state of mind, right. It's a constant assessment that we'll need to go through right. So you know, cause it's a big?
Speaker 1:it's a big deal to like put a website together and get it up Right, and then the next step is like making sure it's accessible for you know, for the wide variety, you know, and you're right, joey, when we talk about accessibility, you know, if you're panelling with insurance, it's all ADA, physical disability adjustments and accommodations that they screen for. There isn't really anything, you know, I think. I think one of mine was like like, do you have the ability for translators? Um, but like, that that's still as far as it goes, and we you know, luliana and I continue to have these discussions to push out there that there's more disabilities to consider other than what you can physically see, um, and it's so important, but there isn't like a checklist for us right now that I'm aware of, of like here are other considerations, unless you have something like that.
Speaker 3:I do, I can share that yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I think that's really helpful? I don't you know, I want to, I want to hold grace that we're, our community isn't doing this intentionally, and if we can provide that information, then there is no excuse for us to make these accommodations absolutely, because the thing about accommodations, it can be for everybody.
Speaker 3:It doesn't have to be for the, for a selected few, it's truly for everybody yeah yeah, I can share that even that right like I love that you're mentioning that.
Speaker 2:Um, because I think I mentioned that I went to a conference and everyone was fighting for the to plug in their computer while I was fighting to plug in my oxygen machine. And people are like but I have to plug in because in with an oxygen machine or they need to hook up.
Speaker 2:You know, anything that they need is that accessible to them and how I'm making that available so that they know that, versus again, most of the things that we're mentioning right now are because insurance are making unaware, but not because we're having trainings about it Totally, which I'm like. Are you doing trainings to me about this?
Speaker 3:I did a talk yesterday on cprt with families like um, deaf children with hearing parents.
Speaker 1:So in in certain sectors, yes, like focused groups well, I would imagine we couldn't like a broad overview. Even that would be like several days long potentially, if you were trying to get every possible need right, like that's a lot and something that I'm.
Speaker 3:Something I'm doing now is I'm currently doing a research study where I'm gathering qualitative data from disabled folks who have engaged in mental health services, specifically individual, family and relationship therapy, to just get a sense of what their experience was like with another, with a clinician, and because I want to figure, because again we have these ways in which we can be more responsive, and what are the other components that are occurring in which we might be perpet responsive and what are the other components that are occurring in which we might be perpetuating harmful messages and or just negatively impacting the therapeutic experience. So hopefully, the more it comes out with that and then something more formalized can be put together. But I know there's like the association. It's just hard too because we're so scattered.
Speaker 3:Association wise, like I'm in the play therapy world, I'm in the emotionally focused therapy world, I'm in the counselor education world too many worlds, I don't want to go to all of them, and so I think the the information gets so siloed into a specific group and or specific association and then it doesn't really get to everybody, and then we get this like I didn't know this existed. Well, of course you didn't. How would you? You're not part of that group, and so I think too, we struggle as a, as a field, to really be, um collaborate, or to really be. I don't know what the word is, do you?
Speaker 2:remember Struggle to collaborate with other associations.
Speaker 1:Even just sharing resources and information. We had the same conversation when we talked with Jessica, who's a certified sex therapist Like they get access to information that the rest of the general therapist population doesn't.
Speaker 1:It's impactful and is helpful to have, not to say. You know, we can't know it all and we can't learn it all, but I think there are big pieces that are, across the board, helpful for us to be able to share and disseminate all that information. And you're absolutely right, joey, there's so many blocks and barriers for that which we're finding them, we're having to repeat stuff that's already been done. We just need to share that information.
Speaker 3:Totally Share it, make it accessible, make it available to anyone who would want it. And so it's nice that you all do this right, gathering people to share and speak, because this is just another way to reach people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, oh yeah. This right gathering people to share and speak, because this is just another way to reach people yeah, like, oh yeah. So I was trying to remember your website because I was like wait, so are you like promoting their, the presentations that you're doing, so that we can like stop probably not speaking about accessibility, joey I probably I don't spend too much time on there.
Speaker 3:I should right I should be putting that on there, but the Center for Play Therapy put that out, and so they were advertising it and whatnot. But yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:You see, but how will we know? We need like a central, like your website will be great. I'm just advocating that your website will be great for us to go see it so that we can follow you and take those trainings, because I need it. I'm sure maria will agree. Like we need it well, I appreciate that.
Speaker 3:I will. I will share that.
Speaker 1:I will share that we just want you to be accessible. Joey, Happy to.
Speaker 3:Happy to help.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. And I want to thank you because I know I mean you really appreciate that, because those of us that are providers or potentially in those positions, we don't, we don't have the energy, all of the time or the physical capability to do this important research. So I just wanted to say thank you for that, because I know there can be some murky waters of an, you know, of an able-bodied person being able to do advocacy for those that are disabled. But I think it's also really important to acknowledge that those of us living with disabilities, we don't have the capacity to do some of this stuff, and it's really, really wonderful to have someone as an advocate like yourself lighting the fire for us. And starting the path.
Speaker 3:Well, and the thing is, the path has been there for so long, right, it's just how can we just make it wider for folks to be able to just get what they need? And so I think about the space. I just think I love therapy so much and I'm, as an educator and training master, students to become therapists it's, it just feels like there's just an opportunity to really make space for the things that just get lost, right, we get lost in the curriculum we have to teach and or the standards that we have to teach, and we often forget the actual human experiences that are we're going to be engaging in in therapy. And I I just as a rehabilitation counselor, just hearing stories and stories over time, it just became clear that, as much as we operate from a social model of disability where the environment is disabling and not the individual, we still perpetuate the medical model all the time and again.
Speaker 3:Part of my dissertation was with EFT therapists, supervisors and certified EFT supervisors and oral therapists working with inter-abled relationships where one partner's disabled and the other partner's non-disabled, and the majority of participants were coming from a deficit-oriented lens and they weren't intending to. These are the well-intended humans that are doing the work, trying to help everyone heal and bond, etc. And yet this was just not being addressed, and it was across different professions. It was not just clinical mental health, it was social work, it was marriage and family, it was psychology. And so it just seems clear that we can just, we can do better for obviously some, so many groups that we want to serve and so many intersections within that, that we can just really just be intentional and humble with the process, rather than feel like it's too overwhelming, it's like it's we're going to make mistakes. It's just chill out and acknowledge you made a mistake, right. It's like sit with that, get your egos aside. You're a human wanting to help humans. Let's lean into that.
Speaker 1:Let's go back to that, right. Like, let's go back to that. There are so many standards and the more letters you add behind your name, more you know organizations and standards you get added to and, um, but yeah, I mean, we're, we're helpers, you know, and we hold the grace that we're doing the best we can with what we know, while being pushed to like, know better, learn more, right make, make the changes that you can, as you can make them and keep moving in that way, but remembering that we're humans helping humans.
Speaker 1:We're all messy in this, but I think if the intent is there right and the drive to learn and to try and to do better, is really important. Beautiful.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Oh God, like too many places. By the way, for everyone who's listening, this is Joy. All the time when I'm talking to him, he's like chill, like he takes me back, like breathe, like just chill, let's come back. And he has this ability for you to pause. First I start laughing. I was like that's right, let me chill. And then two. But this ability Because I was like that's right, let me chill. And then two, but this ability to bring things into focus. One, we are perfectly imperfect and he's always a reminder, like chill, like we got this, we can go, and what is it that they don't know, what is it that I don't know? So he has this humanness that brings everywhere he goes. So if you have the opportunity to learn from him, please, please, please, please, like, take advantage of it, because he always makes time for everyone, he will always answer questions, but he has this ability to bring the human within. So I will always love you for that and I hope you know that.
Speaker 2:I see, and then too, our field does have this savior complex. So then there's a lot of pressure for us to be professional and be perfect all the time, and that we deserve better than that message, and we need to let go of that ego. We're not here to say that I know better than you. We're not here to say that I know better than you. We're here to say how can I be a service for you? And in that there's a humility that comes to it, because then we get to be curious, we go and learn from the client who's in front of us and then see what is it that I can have around me to facilitate this process for you? And that is the beautiful invitation that you're doing for us as you're talking today, joanne, which I think is a gift for everyone.
Speaker 3:That's lovely.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I think it's really important. This isn't being taught in schools. It's not being taught in programming. Even in our professional organizations this isn't as loud as a conversation as I think it needs to be. Disabilities is only going to continue to grow as we move away from the ableist society that we are living in right now, Right.
Speaker 1:So I think that's just a growing area of information and responsibility for clinicians to just become more and more aware of and take those steps that they can, whether it's reviewing their website, whether it's reviewing their space, whether you know, you've given some really lovely starting points for clinicians to give some consideration beyond the three checkboxes for ADA compliance.
Speaker 3:Right, absolutely. You mentioned something and something came up. What was it? It'll come back, but yeah, it's uh.
Speaker 3:We have an important role, right, and how we market ourselves, advertise ourselves, connect to the community matters um, down to our paperwork, and so when we think about just reading level, some of our language is the sometimes a little too jargony for no reason. I don't care what your credentials are, you, you don't need to like if you feel you need to portray yourself as super intelligent, well, some folks can't, just don't understand the questions you're asking. So can you just, like you know, chill out, right? Can you bring your reading level to a fourth grade reading level? Four to sixth grade?
Speaker 3:I work with the deaf community. A large percentage, statistically, can only read at the fourth grade reading level, and so I need to make sure my people work at the group practice that I'm at can be not only for them, but I'm working with individuals with developmental disabilities, intellectual disabilities. I need to be mindful of those components as well, and so keep it in mind that, while we have some language that is necessary for legal reasons, right, for the procedures that we put in place, etc. There's a lot in which how we describe ourselves and all our practice and the information that we can modify and the format of how that's delivered to can be a little more flexible. Sometimes we get stuck with our EHR systems and we're just like well, it's electronic. Well, actually, some people may need it in paper form and so can we just have it on the ready if a client asks to be able to just send it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Beautiful, and so let me go back. I'm having this debate with myself. That's not true. I have it with everyone, but in regards, so there is a difference between clinical language and client language, right?
Speaker 2:um I'm even having this debate, um, in the bilingual spaces that we are, because now is very popular to sell you conferences in spanish and I'm like you're still missing the fucking point. That's clinical, that doesn't help you with the language that you need for your clients. So this is where we move into spaces without actually thinking of the population that we want to serve. So thank you for naming that, because I was like am I the only one? I cannot be the problem with this. I can see it. Can anyone else see it? So thank you for joining me here.
Speaker 3:You're welcome.
Speaker 2:People can see our faces this morning versus just listening to the audio. I'm just loving you today. Um anything else that you want our listeners to know? Um, regarding how to be accessible, um how to have a responsive practice and let go of their fucking savior complex I think there's.
Speaker 3:For those that like to read, there's a book. It's very easy to read and it's more, it's more of a framework. It's a book called Disability Affirmative Therapy and it's by Rhonda Oken. She's a rehabilitation psychologist. She was out of California she may still be there, dr Rhonda Oken.
Speaker 3:This book came out a few years ago, in 2017, and it provides a nice model of just like ways to engage with this, ways to engage with this work and be more affirming right, because if we say we're an affirming therapist, right, I affirm all these different groups. Well, how, show me, right, I affirm all these different groups. Well, how, show me, right, do some work. And then we also have disability-related counseling competencies. Those can be found through the American Rehabilitation Counseling Association. Those are also great as well. We have the multicultural and social justice counseling competencies out of the American Counseling Association. I'm speaking from the counseling psych, obviously, because that's my world, but there are probably others out there, because we don't communicate or collaborate across associations. So know that that is available to you as well, and it provides this nice way of just looking at the privilege that we hold and the power we hold as a clinician and then how those dynamics play out as either disabled practitioner and or non-disabled practitioner and being able to engage with those spaces with a little more thought and exploration.
Speaker 2:I would like to say thank you, as Maria pointed out, because it is exhausting when we are disabled entities and we're only called when we're going to be used as tokens.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's exhausting, and then we're being rejected after it because we're asking too much. So having someone like you advocating for this is refreshing and it gives us hope absolutely thank you for doing what you're doing.
Speaker 1:it's so, it's so important. It's so important and you know, I'm really appreciative that you're willing to come on today and like chat with us about it, because these conversations need to be louder, there needs to be more emphasis and influence behind them than what we've got right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree I agree, the man of so many words this morning. Thank you, joey. We will include your website.
Speaker 3:Anything else that you want us to include on today's podcast. Just I will share those links. For the competencies, I think those are just great. And then the book it's just another great one. And then, for those of you who obviously love reading and want to do more, I always lean into if I'm going to read something about a particular group, I'm going to read it from their voices, and so, being mindful that there are amazing disabled authors out there that provide a lot of great resources and information, so to not forget that, Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for being here today. That, no, thank you. Thank you for being here today. Thank you for being you. You're such a beautiful human Um, I I get to hang and I get to um to have access to you, but I hope that everyone who's listening. Please reach out, pay for consultation. When you reach out to him, uh, and ask questions. Please ask questions. If you truly want to have a responsive practice, do consultations. That is the best way and Joey is here to provide that service for all of you who are listening, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Joey, it was such a delight to meet you.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2:Until next time, bye.
