A Hero's Welcome Podcast

Breaking Down Professional Gatekeeping with Liliana & Maria

• Maria Laquerre-Diego, LMFT-S, RPT-S & Liliana Baylon, LMFT-S, RPT-S • Season 2

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The mental health field has a problem we need to talk about - one that's driving talented clinicians away and ultimately harming the clients we all serve. In this candid conversation, two Licensed Marriage and Family Therapists strip away professional pretense to examine the dysfunctional systems governing our work.

We tackle the uncomfortable reality of gatekeeping in mental health - how established professionals and institutions often block access to knowledge, training, and credentials through arbitrary barriers and outdated "pay your dues" mentalities. As systems thinkers, we examine why professional structures resist change even when that resistance contradicts the very values we promote in therapy rooms.

What happens when a field preaches growth and possibility to clients while enforcing rigid, exclusive pathways for its practitioners? The dissonance is both striking and damaging. We explore how newer generations of clinicians bring vital perspectives and boundaries that are frequently rejected rather than welcomed, and how decision-makers are often disconnected from current clinical realities.

This conversation isn't about tearing everything down - it's about questioning why we maintain systems that no longer serve the majority of practitioners or their clients. It's about being curious rather than defensive when faced with calls for change. And ultimately, it's about building a profession that embodies the same principles of flexibility, growth, and multiple possibilities that we offer our clients.

Join us as we position ourselves as bridges between generations, valuing both established wisdom and fresh perspectives, and imagine a more accessible, supportive professional landscape for all mental health practitioners. Question the systems you're involved with, be an ethical disruptor, and know that you're not alone.

A Hero's Welcome Podcast © Maria Laquerre-Diego & Liliana Baylon

Maria:

Welcome back listeners. Another special episode of the Heroes Welcome podcast. Liliana, it's you and me today. It is just the two of us.

Liliana:

By the way, we're also wearing green today. I was like how appropriate, how in sync are we Maybe a little too in sync?

Maria:

maybe a little too in sync, but it's actually going to be really helpful for our topic today. Yes, as you know, if you've listened to any of our podcast episodes before, if you've listened to us talk and teach, liliana and I are both LMFTs, so Licensed Marriage and Family Therapists, which means we are system thinkers. We are System thinkers and no shade to our social workers. But you're not in the room right now. It is two MFTs and we would like to talk about the system in which we find ourselves working. So it's that right.

Liliana:

We don't think it's working. Yeah, it's definitely not working, and in that, like, zoom out and everything around you is systems yes, everything. But today we want to be talking about the systems in our field.

Maria:

Yes, yes, we do. And if you are new to the podcast, please go back and listen to some of our other episodes. You get a flavoring, because today is a tough topic. Yes, it's an important topic and we anticipate it's not going to be a well-liked topic for many, and that's okay. That's okay. That's what we are here for. Yeah, we have been talking quite a bit, liliana, lately about the system in which we are working, our professional field. Yes, which is a large umbrella system. Right, because things are slightly different based on licensure or state, but you and I are in very similar professional circles and systems. Yes, and we've been running into both through consultation, supervision, but also our own experiences lately of the system just not working.

Liliana:

Specifically not welcoming either new voices, new ideas. It seems like we are in generational patterns where we believe that the older that we are, and the older in the field specifically that we are, that we know more and that we should mentor others.

Maria:

Yeah, and we're we're pro mentorship and supporting and consultation, like we. That's something that we even offer and help people, and what we're running into is kind of this old school mentality. That is not let's just say it's not okay. It's not okay what's happening right now? Because what's happening is we're becoming stagnant in our field.

Liliana:

Yes.

Maria:

And it's starting to really impact not just the client, like clinicians that we help and support, but the clients that those clinicians are trying to help.

Liliana:

Yes, yes. So in that right, like I think Maria and I I'm going to call it and it sounds like really you're talking about yourself in that way but, like you and I are very open about how many doors can we open for others. What are the voices that need to come? Not because we believe, but like we keep asking others, tell me who needs to come. Who am I not aware of? How are they doing things? Because the idea is we love our field so much that we're able to sit back and see what works and what doesn't. That's how much we love our field and because we're system thinkers, we're like how can we help our field even though our field is not so? Welcoming that feedback.

Maria:

Yeah, absolutely. We have the honor and privilege of helping and watching these new clinicians, new generations of clinicians, coming up. That's probably part of my, like. Some of my favorite work that we get to do is seeing the new ideas, the new adaptations, the new, the new personalities and attitudes that come with new clinicians. Right, this next generation, good Lord, do I love them? Oh man, they. They come with boundaries and expectations and the sense of they know. They may not know who they are, but they know what they deserve, yes, and they're not afraid to ask for it.

Liliana:

Yes.

Maria:

And that is not accepted by many, many parts of the system of the system?

Liliana:

Yes, because then the question when this new cohort, which Maria and I just stated like we love their I was like I did not know I can do that. We learned so much from them, but now what we're listening from older generations or the you know originals or however. We want our mentors. Is that automatically the question? Who do they think they are?

Maria:

Yes, yes, oh, that made my stomach just flip. The flip right Because we and this feels like such a just position, because we are in a helping field where we support growth and change and progress, supposedly and we don't right the system does not support new ideas, new ways of thinking, new ways of doing until loud, loud accommodations and protesting and change happens right and that can feel so alone for those that are trying to stand and go. I know this is not accepted and it's my truth and I think it's helpful for other people to hear that.

Liliana:

Yeah, which then it goes into. Those systems may allow some things to happen for a little bit, and then, as soon as we go back to old norms, they go back right away, because they did not truly understand the need of change.

Maria:

Yes, well, and we know, right, as systems thinkers. Let's look at this, let's zoom out what happens to a system when a part of that system changes. Right, the system initially tries to reject the change. The system wants homeostasis. This is true for all systems, including those that involve people and personalities, right? So when there is a disruption, even if it is for a good cause, the system rejects that.

Maria:

Yes, we need to acknowledge that and then make space, because if the system is getting feedback that this is not working, we would like something different for the betterment and longevity of that system, the best option is to seriously consider those requests and adapt the system. Right, like this is just system theory. This is what this is true. Right, if we were talking about a computer, it'd be the same thing. If the computer kept saying you need to update this program. What does the system need to do to function? It needs to update that program. The same is true in our professional field.

Maria:

If we, as a professional system, do not look at these disruptors I'm using my air quotes for those that can't see if we don't look at those and take that feedback in seriously and consider changing the system, our system is going to fail. Yes, it's going to fail, right, we cannot just apply theories as they were created for a long, long time ago. This hetero, white, male, let's I'm gonna name it right like that's. A lot of our founding theories were based around that, and based around treatment for either people of privilege and money, and we have not, as a whole system, really reevaluated that and go oh, we live in a different time now. Yeah, we live in a different time.

Liliana:

So you know, from a systems point of view and this is where Maria and I are always looking for what are the voices that we need to listen. So our dear friend Jessica, who's here in Colorado I'm very privileged to have access to her is the one that made us aware how, even in couples, therapy through mental health, we tend to put the blame, the guilt, the responsibility in females to do to help the system, which that's how the system was set up from the beginning. Amen, sister, Thank you for making us aware of that. Patriarchy is real and other stuff, right from the books that she shares or asks us to read, so on and so forth, from the books that she shares or asks us to read, so on and so forth.

Liliana:

So in mental health, as therapists, we keep doing and repeating always they actually are not helpful for where we are and where we need to be with the awareness that we have nowadays. But we're making out, yes, which will change and we will have to adjust again when new information comes out. And what I want to focus on today in systems is how we, as mental health therapists, tend to be very selfish in our field. You know something you want to like, hold to it and monetize it right away, and you want to close doors so fast so that no one comes in.

Maria:

Yes, this idea of exclusivity, right, Just what? Let's be honest, this is rooted in privilege. It's rooted in privilege because to minimize or dismiss ideas that are different than your own because you have a different experience. What are we doing? What are we doing? Why would we do that? Why would we would we do that? Why would we intentionally perpetuate systems of prejudice and exclusivity in a helping field? A?

Liliana:

helping field. So in that right, like I want to make sure that we that we're not misunderstood if you create something that took you, you know, whatever time away from your family, like, of course, you deserve to be paid for Absolutely.

Liliana:

That's not what we're discussing Like power to you, yes, if you know, whatever it is that you're doing and if you're working like there's a different system there and we want you to be compensated for it. Because, again, we're naming um, the resource of time, that, the thing that no one can pay you for, because they're paying you for knowledge, they're paying you for for all these things. But, specifically, even though I've been trying like not to name it, so here we go. I was like what is the different way to name this?

Liliana:

Buckle up, fuck it. Gatekeeping in our field. We know from ethics that that's wrong. We name it, but we keep doing it. We keep doing it. That's how we do things.

Maria:

Yeah, when we know better. Right, and part of this conversation is we do. I mean, we do want to push back and we do want to push on the question on some of these boundaries and this gatekeeping, If there's a real reason for it, we don't understand it. We don't see it. So let us know. Let us know If you are a part of this system and you can help shed some light on why gatekeeping needs to happen. We are definitely willing to listen to that and we've got some questions, because how is it serving our profession and how is it serving the clients that we serve, which are all of our home communities? Right, we serve our communities. How is that beneficial when we limit access to information, techniques, theories, systems, credentialing all of that? What is the benefit of making something exclusive and unattainable for those on the ground?

Maria:

doing the work.

Liliana:

So let it sink in. Oh, I got tingles all over.

Liliana:

Because it doesn't make sense. When we chose this career one I hate the word being at service, but that's exactly what it is right Like we wanted to help others help themselves. Yeah, right, because we cannot go through this idea that we know better and you have to do what? Because that is completely wrong. This is not real, right?

Liliana:

A friend of mine sent me so if you're listening, thank you sent me a comic through Instagram and there's a guy who said I finally understood what therapy is and that's the only field that can get away with it, and I'll share it in social media, or I'll send it to Maria so she can share it on social media. But the comedian goes to say it's the only field that can get away with it. Because I go to therapy, I tell someone my problems and then they ask me questions in order for me to make sense of the possibilities. He's like. But if I call a plumber and if he comes in, if I said, hey, my toilet is clogged, and he's telling me here are the possibilities, we have a real problem. So I need the plumber to fix this, I started laughing. So thank you for sending me that. By the way, send it to me really late.

Liliana:

I started really late. I was like I cannot laugh, I'm going to wake up people, but I'm sharing this because the idea is, this is the only field where we have so many possibilities. There's no right way. So the idea that we're here to help. But I'm going to hold on to this and I'm going to close the door so that no one else and if I see possibilities, I will choose. I will choose who can come in, which usually 10 people of privilege. I will choose who can come in, who can pay for what I'm teaching, who will. I will then decide if they're worthy of coming in through this door and in that we're actually hindering our field. Because I'm choosing robots, I'm choosing minimis.

Maria:

Yes, Well, and it's such a difference from the system in which we are perpetuating. Right, so, as a clinician, we hold this system that a client comes in. We are a mirror, we are a resource. There are many possibilities for them to achieve their goal. Right, that is the system of therapists. Right, we don't have a book of answers. There's not one right way. We don't get to pick the path towards the goal. We help them find the path that works for them.

Maria:

Why is that not the system, then, of our profession, where, if the goal is this credential, there are many ways that you can attain that. It's such a dissonance that we are doing one system inside of a system that does not hold that same value. Yes, oh, it's that dissonance. That's what this is. Oh, it's that dissonance. That's what this is, because if we were a reflection of the system, then the system would be like cool, you want this credential. There are many ways to get there. Here are the boundaries in which you need to do this, but there's flexibility and there's there's accessibility. That's what it is right. Instead of this is exclusive.

Liliana:

Yes, there you go, those clicks that we tend to see on those conferences right.

Maria:

Well even some of those credentials if you think about you know there are certain credentials out there that I've been on a wait list to get into level one intro stuff for years, and this is said from, I mean, I acknowledge my privilege, right, this is said from a woman of a place of privilege and I can't get in that door. Yeah, which you know. Why do? One, I mean, why do I want to be invited to a table I'm not invited to but two, why are you prohibiting clinicians from this information or bettering themselves to better their clients?

Liliana:

I remember asking that question, but from an association where I wanted to go volunteer to provide a different point of view, and I was rejected because, one, I'm too loud, me. Two, I think outside the box, okay, but two, I don't have the right skin color. I don't have the right skin color, I don't have the right credentials. And I say we don't have credentials, not because we don't have the same foundation, which we do, we do, but it was the credentials that they were looking for. So unless they have a cookie cutter, they're like you're not welcome here. So that gatekeeping or models asking supervisors, unless they meet these requirements, do not let them come in, or like we can keep naming all these systems that keep repeating these things, and it's not helpful, I have to say.

Liliana:

I remember, and so there's two things that I want to say here. I feel like Lisa Deanne should give us a fee for how much we name here. We're not trying to name drop, yes, but I remember when she said what is the fantasy that we have created? Yes, right, either with our clients, with their families, with the keto or with the system. And I think the fantasy on the system that we're talking about is that if we're mental health and we know the impact, why are we're not doing differently? And so that's a fantasy of social justice. That it's a fantasy because the system was not set up for any of this? Yeah, no, yeah, the fantasy is that the system not set up for any of this.

Maria:

Yeah, no, yeah. The fantasy is that the system is set up for us to be successful. Yeah, that's the fantasy, yes.

Liliana:

And then the social movement is things are not equal. Can we make it equal? That's the fantasy. Dismissing that the systems were not set up from the beginning for any of this that's the denial.

Maria:

Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. Why can't we take a moment to pause as a system and reevaluate what is working, what is not working, and not for the people at the top, for the people doing the work, the people who want the access? Right what is working and what's not working and where do we need to make some shifts and accommodations? Right?

Liliana:

But I think you just named it there, right which is then? This is the political side that once you get to the top, you're not actually you make so many promises to make to the top yeah, but then once you get to the top, you're not actually you make so many promises to make to the top yeah, but then once you get to the top, and the political side, if you understand political science, is that I will do everything to stay on top, I will continue making promises but not fulfill them, because in order to stay on top, I have to play by certain rules. Well, it's the scarcity mindset right.

Maria:

What we're talking about is the scarcity mindset. If you get it, then I don't get it. Instead of there's enough for everyone, there is a group right. Like, if there's not room at the table, we make a longer table. We don't close the door, we make a longer table and we preach that. We preach that to clinicians, who then preach that to clients, but we are not getting that support from the system in which we are working. Our system is like oh, do you fit this mold? Do you check these boxes?

Maria:

And do we have a want for you to be at the table? Yes, right, and I think that's that's. It's such a disservice, but it really truly makes me angry at the system because we are. We are punishing for the lack of resources that our clinicians have, and that is not, and that's another failed system, right. But when we are looking at these systems that say, oh no, you need to pay your dues, oh, I hate that. Yeah, I know you do, that's why I said it. You need to pay your dues. You need to sacrifice, like I sacrificed. This needs to be almost miserable for you for it to be worth it. Right, like you have to suffer to obtain this thing. And then, once you do, you need to make sure nobody else can take it away from you.

Liliana:

Yes, which, as an older, child and migrant and minority and still holding privileges right. Anytime that someone tells me you have to pay your dues, then I go into who decided on that dues? Do I have access to that meeting so they can advocate who said it? I want names and numbers. I have a problem with this.

Maria:

Yeah, what's this old mentality of paying your dues right? That you must suffer before you have access to make your life easier? Your client practice better your whatever, whatever. This is right, whatever you're seeking out. This idea that you have to suffer and sacrifice to make it worth it makes me really question if it was worth it in the beginning to make it worth it makes me really question if it was worth it in the beginning.

Liliana:

Yes, right, yeah, that you have to suffer, that you have to sacrifice.

Maria:

Excuse me, what Aren't we doing? Enough of that, just surviving. Have you stepped outside? I mean, and that's been my complaint, right? We also recognize that these decisions and rules are being made by people who sometimes have never had a clinical practice, oh my God or it's been a long time since they have had a clinical practice, so they don't understand what clinicians are dealing with right now. They are working on old information based on their own clinical or lack thereof experience in a time that doesn't exist anymore. Yes, the voices that need to be at the table are the ones doing the work every day.

Liliana:

Right, and those are the voices that we're trying to exclude, because they have not pay your dues or they don't have leadership skills, so they don't have the proper training. Well then give it to them for crying out loud. Give it to them, and the more removed you are, the less access you have to what we're discussing.

Maria:

Yeah, your voice doesn't count as much if you're not doing the work right. And that is our position. Right, and that is you know. That's why we both continue, despite growing. We both have clinical clients and caseloads that we're still doing, because it's a value of ours to make sure that we are in touch with what our supervisees, our consultees, our group is doing and experiencing in the clinic room.

Liliana:

Yes.

Maria:

We could have such a better system, which would then, in turn, have healthier, supported clinicians instead of this. You know, I went to a recent state meeting and they're talking about the lack of employment because people aren't working, they're not staying in our state, they're seeking employment elsewhere or they're leaving the field. Yeah, that's been the other thing we have been doing so much supervision and consultation around people leaving the field completely because they're burnt. They're burnt out from a system that does not support them.

Liliana:

Or they're making the barriers higher, right Like we have how many credentials, specifically one that I'm thinking of. Right Like we have how many credentials specifically one that I'm thinking of that keeps putting someone in power decided to micromanage and put barriers to decide who's worthy of coming for that credential, not focusing on the need of the credential.

Maria:

Yes and and we are not saying there shouldn't be you know requirements right Like we believe that yes, there needs to be. You need to be able to show and prove that you've taken these skills in and that you can do it effectively and that you're not going to do harm right, like we believe that to be true. We we we're not questioning the need for you know structure around. Show that you've learned it and that you're going to use this information safely and ethically. We're not questioning that. What we are questioning is why is the access to that a barrier for clinicians that they cannot some of them cannot overcome financially? Time, whatever the application process, the screen, whatever it is.

Liliana:

There was an episode I think last year and I shared with someone very predominant, which I will not name to honor our private conversations, but how she made me aware and I said she because I feel is the majority female, it's easier to use that, take your guess. But when she made me aware that when our field started it started with privileges, it was professors at universities, who mainly was actually males back then, who had the salary was not an issue, Housing was not an issue. Housing was not an issue, like things were providing for them. So they did it more as a hobby, like I want to pay it forward, kind of thing. But it's not the current situation anymore.

Liliana:

The majority of the people who are going into this field, going to help, but they don't have salary or housing secure and they're struggling to and that's why they're leaving, they're struggling to make means. When the theory is that as a first responder even though we're not recognized as first responders that we have to sacrifice, then insurances payers will tell us that we have to be. Then insurances payers will tell us that we have to be available 24-7. And then agents can tell us that we should work 40 hours a week plus no times, because that's not included there, because we will judge you if you do your notes during the session. Wink, wink. So it's all these systems that have something to say about us.

Liliana:

We did not participate or vote it no, you're imposed upon it these systems work, yet we have individuals holding, holding on to that door to not let anyone else come in and treating us as if they just know more than we do, discounting either life experience, training, backgrounds all these things that makes us different but unique, that adds into our field.

Maria:

Yeah, it's this. You know, when things are questioned, the initial reaction is rejection, anger. Right, they take it personally and, let's be really honest, we need to be questioning everything, because that's what keeps us relevant, it keeps us informed, it keeps us safe and it keeps us being able to do. The work that we need to do is through questioning these old ideas and old systems. I, my fantasy, my fantasy is having all of the new voices at the table and being able to say okay, what, what works for you now?

Maria:

And how do we make that accessible to everybody?

Liliana:

And even on that right again, I want to come back. I love sitting at different tables because I keep learning from everyone. So if you know anything about me, you know that I sit in a lot of tables, and I remember having a conversation with someone here, local in Colorado, and telling me you know, we have the founders of, or you know the originals of, and I said look, I don't want to dismiss, I'm actually I'm here to learn. What is it that they know that I need to know? And are they open to make it easier or for new ways of? Yeah, because of my background. You are calling me because of my background.

Liliana:

So am I going to go into a system because they believe that they know more? They're going to reject anything that I do. That's gatekeeping. They're going to close everything on me. Or are you bringing me and sharing this with me because you want me to know, so that I can listen, so I don't have to reinvent something that works? But also, are you open for the feedback that you're hiring me, potentially so that I can come and give? So is that give and take? I do not want to go and reinvent my grandma's recipe. It is fucking great. However, as I'm aging and I cannot eat the same ingredients, I am making adaptations to recreate her recipe in a way that my digestive system is not going to reject it right away and I'm going to feel good about it because of that emotional connection, right? So, gay Kibin, can you like fucking stop it.

Maria:

Yeah, can we be really curious about it? Right, I'll be the gentle one today. Can we be curious about why you feel the need to gatekeep and make access to what you have, what you know, difficult or unattainable for the majority? I just want you to be really curious about that. Why we doing this? Yes, and if you're in a system and you would like to be a disruptor of that system, join us.

Maria:

Yes, let's be honest, if you, if you hire liliana or I, you are hiring a disruptor of the system you're gonna hire. What you're hiring is someone who's gonna come in. They're gonna observe, they're gonna learn, they're gonna take this all in and then they're gonna tell you how to do it in a different way. Yes, if you don't want that feedback, we are not the ladies for you and you might find yourself in a system going. I am questioning this. I don't think this makes sense to me anymore. I would like to be a disruptor of this system and question it, because not because we want to dismantle it completely, but there's a better way. Yeah, there's a better way, and are you open to hearing what that might be?

Maria:

Can you be uncomfortable in change. This is something we say all the time. We promote change. We are agents of change. That's why people come to us is to help them change. And yet when we, as clinicians, are faced with change or systems are faced with change, we reject it, we struggle with it.

Liliana:

So I guess you know what we're suggesting is can we become aware of the system that we're in place to benefit people on the top? That's one. Can you be curious of the intent either of you or the people around you holding, blocking that door? And if you truly believe on what you chose in this career, can you question, can you be curious about why are we holding those doors, those barriers, why are you so invested in being a gatekeeper? Yeah right, there's no. Um, I was gonna say there's no judgment and actually there's not like if you, if, if you're that person, own it, fucking, own it, fucking own it and live by it because that's important to you. The question for us is are you aware of what you're doing? Because in that when you're closing the gate so close, there's no airflow, there's no movement, there's no growth you get stuck Absolutely.

Maria:

Oh, I love that, I love that so much. And, yes, I mean we are questioning the gatekeeping and the systems, rejecting change and new voices, partly because that's what we do, that's the value of ours, and we're happy to be disruptors, and it's not just to be a pain in the ass. It is because we see the value of change and adaptation for the betterment of the majority who are doing the work, and a lot of these systems, the people making the decisions, are not reflective of the people who it's going to impact, the people doing the work no-transcript, I think.

Liliana:

And the other thing that I wanted up is that I keep hearing in our system and these professional mental health therapists how they're talking shit about others.

Maria:

Ugh. Can we stop with the mean girl? High school drama.

Liliana:

If you have met me and if I have a problem with you, I'm going to call you, I'm going to text you if I have a problem with you? Probably because if I have a problem with you it's because I a problem with this, because I know you. But I love this quote and I forgot his name. He's an actor, he was in spider-man. He said if you have a problem with me and if, uh, you can, if you have my number, call me and text me. But if you have a problem with me, if you don't have my number and you cannot text me, then you don't know me to have a problem with me. Yeah.

Liliana:

So stop talking shit about others. Own it, pick up the fucking phone that's why it was invented and if you have a problem, say what's your problem. Yeah, but learn also to separate your personal and the professional. Yeah, and like that's just my thing. Like, call me Some of you which I have a problem with. I have called you, I have texted you, I have no, you know, I have no issue with owning that. But also like if you have a problem with me, call me and text me, because I want to take accountability for it.

Maria:

I want to continue going. It's about having the conversation right and and this mean girl talking behind our back, bad mouthing, putting, putting each other down down like can we, can we leave that in high school, can we? How is that serving you, how is that serving the profession, especially when it's being done by people of privilege and power positions?

Liliana:

Yes.

Maria:

Can we own that as a system? We have not done a great job in supporting and really truly uplifting the system. Has become gatekeeping, exclusivity, shutting it down, limiting access, and we would like to see that change. We would like to see that change. I know we are actively taking steps ourselves and we are very much encouraging and supporting other people to take safe steps in that direction too. Absolutely, can we be kind to each other even when we don't agree or like each other in these realms? Right, like, yeah, if we can disagree about a lot of things, we can. We absolutely can and still be kind to each other. There are certain values that you know. Liliana and I have firm stances and lines on, firm stances and lines on, and if that's the case, then we can agree to disagree and disengage. That does not mean we need to continue to tear down bad talk you know slander and and put down other people in our profession. We are better than that.

Liliana:

And if you're listening to that right like, also pay attention to. I like to pay attention when people tell me like so, so blah, blah, blah, one dismiss it like don't, don't add to that anything. But then I like, as a system thinkers, I like paying attention to patterns. What is it that is being repeated? Yeah, um, and that gives me so much. And so just be curious, own who you are, fight for what you believe separate. When you are a therapist providing a service, you're not invisible. It has an impact on you and they're paying you for a service. If it doesn't work with you, you can say I'm not the right person for you. Our ethics give us doors in order for us to refer clients out.

Maria:

It's the same, too, with systems. If you find yourself in a system that's no longer serving you, or if this conversation is sparking a little bit of disruptor energy for you, question the system and find a system that's more in line for you.

Liliana:

Yes, and so separate that. Do I need this system? Do I need this credential? Who benefits this? How? This is a fair exchange? Another phrase from Lisa Dion. How is this a fair exchange? And if it's not, why am I here?

Maria:

Right, why am I doing it and give yourself permission to make a different choice now? Yes, you can pause at any point. Yes, re-evaluate and make a choice that's better for you yes, so stop it with the hashtag.

Liliana:

Stop it with. I stand with.

Maria:

Stop it with because, the mean girl yeah, yeah, and and let's, let's look at how our actions professionally impact the greater system of professional you know identity and culture that we have. Yes, and we move towards more acceptance, accommodations and if we disagree, we can do it like adults yes, you know, yes, I, I know I'm.

Liliana:

I'm celebrating 50 this year, so I'm like embracing it right, I keep smiling. I don't have time for this shit, but let's be honest, nobody does the work.

Maria:

The workload is so much, so much, and I think a lot of this comes from those that aren't doing the heavy lifting and they have the time and space, I guess, for this yeah um. Can we put it to a better use?

Liliana:

Yes, amen.

Maria:

Yeah. So please look at your systems that you're involved with, question them, be an ethical disruptor in them and know that you're not alone, even when it feels like you might be the only one doing it this way. Or please don't feel like it's a burden when you need to ask for accommodations. It's not. It's not. If you don't hear that from anyone else, you hear that from us.

Liliana:

Yes.

Maria:

It's not. You are valued, you are wanted and needed in this system and we would love to see some shifts in these systems to be more accommodating to that.

Liliana:

Now. So we started with. We're in MFTs. Even our association is not perfect, no, and we also named that. But because of that also, we want to name what works and what doesn't work. We love thinking in systems. We love not only helping our clients but also supporting our colleagues, and we're able to zoom in and zoom out and see what works and what doesn't. And what works, maria and I are committed to not repeat it. And what works, we are committed to share it, because we cannot be the only ones holding this information. We want a lot of clients to benefit from this, yeah.

Maria:

Yeah, yeah. So I would like to zoom in one more time and just put the value for what you're doing. If you're listening to this, if you're taking the time to hear this conversation, I just want you to hear that the work you're doing is so necessary, it's so valued. Because I know you're not hearing that in the system. And then I want to zoom out and tell the system. If you're listening, please be really curious and start questioning why we do it the way we're doing it and be open to those newer voices, because there's a better way.

Liliana:

that's a better way they're teaching us so much so much, so much.

Maria:

Keep it coming, keep it coming and and we're all going to be better for it our professional be better for it. We're better clinicians for it, which then in turn means our clients get better care.

Liliana:

Yes, so we will leave you with this. The conversation that we were having is how we are bridges right now between generations. We are in the middle, understanding what older generations did and why they did it, because we became very, very curious about these systems. And then now we're seeing the new systems coming in and we are energized and we like what they're doing. They don't know everything yet, like sometimes. We're like oh sweetie, yes, go for it.

Liliana:

So being a bridge between this gives us so much richness in regards to understanding systems, and that's why we wanted to talk about it today, understanding systems, and that's why we wanted to talk about it today. And then just say, hey, systems, just look at you, look around you and if it's working but if it's working to maintain a system that we're naming is no longer working, do you really want to be outdated? Isn't that your fear? And if it's not working, what are the voices that need to be around you? Not because you're interested in someone who thinks like you, because that doesn't allow us change, but what are the voices around you in order to be adaptable and continue with the change?

Maria:

Yeah, absolutely, change is inevitable.

Liliana:

Yes.

Maria:

And it's also necessary. We could be in a better position if we embraced it rather than being scared of it.

Liliana:

Yes, right so, oh, that is so beautiful. Love this Love this topic today, spicy today it was.

Maria:

We were spicy today we were, but we do appreciate you listening, we do appreciate you questioning, um. You know we don't. We don't have it all right all the time either. No system is ever going to be perfect, but taking that accountability is is important. Yeah, so until the next time, take good care of you, um, and maybe just be curious about the systems around you love that be curious till then bye.

Head Shot

Liliana Baylon, LMFT-S, RPT-S

Host
Head Shot

Maria Laquerre-Diego, LMFT-S, RPT-S

Host