A Hero's Welcome Podcast

Gatekeeping Diagnoses with Jessica Kruckeberg

• Maria Laquerre-Diego, LMFT-S, RPT-S & Liliana Baylon, LMFT-S, RPT-S • Season 3 • Episode 1

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What happens when the checklist says “no,” but your body and life keep saying “something is real”? We open the new season by taking aim at diagnostic gatekeeping—across therapy offices, clinics, and urgent care—and making the case for care that centers lived experience alongside criteria. With returning guest Jessica Kirkberg, LMFT and sex therapist, we untangle how the medical model can flatten people into labels and why cultural humility, social location, and context should guide treatment just as much as manuals do.

We get practical fast. Jessica shares how training in cultural humility and pain reprocessing reshaped her supervision and client work, from asking about the menstrual cycle to mapping how Ehlers‑Danlos syndrome, endometriosis, migraines, and autoimmune flares affect mood, attention, and safety. We talk about the rise of self-diagnosis through social media—not as a problem to be mocked, but as a tool that gives people language and community when criteria were written for someone else. For many, an EDS diagnosis won’t unlock a cure, but it can unlock clarity, reduce shame, and point to better pacing, sensory supports, and boundaries.

Ableism shows up everywhere: patients feeling forced to “look sick” to be believed, therapists policing how clients sit or move, and insurance barriers that turn access into a maze. We offer concrete ways to lower the mental load in therapy—allow movement, normalize comfort items, keep heat packs and tea on hand, dim harsh lights, and keep curiosity at the center. We also challenge clinicians to name their own social locations and examine internalized ableism, because what we hide in ourselves we often project onto clients. If your setting is rigid, build a consultation circle, follow disabled clinicians, and test one new adaptation at a time. Better care isn’t a slogan; it’s a series of small, repeatable choices that trust what people say about their bodies and minds.

If this conversation pushed you or gave you language you needed, subscribe, share with a colleague, and leave a review telling us one access change you’ll try this week. Your story might be the spark someone else needs.

A Hero's Welcome Podcast © Maria Laquerre-Diego & Liliana Baylon

Liliana:

Welcome, listeners, to 2026. This is our first episode of our third season, and we're so excited to have you. I am your co-host, Maria, and I'm joined by my lovely co-host.

Maria:

That's me, Liliana Balin. And we are here with a returning guest. We're so excited that you're back. Jessica, how do you want to reintroduce yourself to our audience? Oh, I should have had something prepared.

SPEAKER_04:

I don't think I was prepared the last time, too. Just you in your natural form, Jessica. Just me. Well, since last time I've rebranded. So my practice is now called In Her Wisdom. But to back up, so Jessica Kirkberg, let's see, all the letters. LMFT, licensed marriage and family therapist, AMFT approved supervisor, Asect sex certified sex therapist. And I'm in the middle of getting my ASECT supervisor supervisory credentials.

Maria:

Yes.

SPEAKER_04:

So that should be coming here in probably about a year.

Maria:

I love this. And in her wisdom, you rebranded. I love the name of it.

SPEAKER_04:

I know, so do I. I should have worn I had a t-shirt that has it on there. I should have worn it for you know all our the audience members who can't see my shirt.

Liliana:

That would have been fun. Well, and you're back joining us again. What are we tackling today?

SPEAKER_04:

As I was saying, like I've been it's I've been trying to figure out the words for this because I've been seeing it in my own practice. I've been seeing it among my peers in trainings because I've been doing pretty heavy trainings this last year just to get some certifications. I did the AMFT cultural humility certificate. I did the pain reprocessing therapy, like I think it's like 19, 20 hours training. And so I've been around a lot of other therapists more than I typically am. And I've been noticing the best way I can describe it is sort of this gatekeeping that's happening with diagnoses.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Where, you know, a lot of clinicians are, you know, I don't think it's just mental health. I think that's why I'm hesitating because I don't just see it in mental health because my clients report it in their physical providers, too, where there'll be this diagnosis the client clearly or the patient clearly meets the qualifications of. But because there's something missing that the provider has decided is the one thing that now null and voids the entire diagnosis.

Liliana:

Yep.

SPEAKER_04:

Meanwhile, those diagnoses, you know, especially in our world of mental health, were created by a group of white guys decades ago. And they're not considering things that, you know, we as LMFTs think is important, you know, like systems. And I always look at is how many of us have seen a client whose anxiety or depression symptoms have cleared up when they've left a job.

Liliana:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Or left a relationship.

Liliana:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And so kind of like I've been trying to figure out words and you know, how to conceptualize this that I'm seeing in my peers that they don't seem to have the critical thinking skills. They just kind of, this is the diagnostic criteria, you don't meet it, or I'm the only one who's allowed to tell you if you meet it.

Maria:

Yeah. You're absolutely right. It is a gatekeeping mentality that it has been passed down. Think about all of you who are listening. When you were in school in your master's program, you were told, right, check this checklist. And if it does, then yes, give the diagnosis. And if it doesn't, which is the same thing in in doctor's offices. Yeah, it's a medical model. It's it's a medical model, period. So then we were trained to if if if it's not all the boxes, then it's not it. We have to look for, let me give you an adjustment in the meantime. But but it but it I love this because you are you are talking from one, it can be seen as a microaggression because you get to decide not my truth, but your truth. So I love this, and it's also talking from my ableism world, which is you are healthy, you don't have my life experience, and therefore you get to decide if I feed that criteria, not you're not trusting what I'm sharing you because I don't have your credentials, but you're not trusting me in what I'm sharing you with this life experience. So how do we how do we change that?

Liliana:

And it also pigeonholes it, right? Like once you have a diagnosis, that's all that's focused on. And we don't consider the whole human being in front. I mean, just the human existence is a system, right? It's not, we are not just our mental health or just part of our physical health. It is all encompassing and both with autoimmune conditions, help physical health diagnoses, and mental health diagnoses. There is this trend of once I've named it, labeled it, that's it. That's all I'm looking at, right? And there is no consideration of like you were saying, Jessica, things can get better because the situation changes.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think it goes both ways. Either providers are gatekeeping and not giving the diagnosis or quick to diagnose someone rather than consider, you know, all the cultural humility pieces, what you know, considering, you know, all those social location pieces that you know, MFTs are trained in and I think sometimes forget about when they've been practicing for a long time and need to be reminded about. But you know, my, you know, we talked about when I was on the podcast last time, the menstrual cycle. This one concept, you know, and when I'm supervising clinicians and they bring up a topic, I'm always asking, where's your client at in their menstrual cycle?

Maria:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, I never thought to ask that. You're my supervisee. What do you mean you didn't think to ask that?

Maria:

I have to tell, I don't know about you, Maria, but that became one of my questions on my intake, asking about their menstrual. And now I ask that in a regular basis because I deopened my mind with that in regards to I never considered this. So even as an MFT, and the three of us are MFTs here, by the way. Even as an MFT, we may be that some something, because I can tell about the menstrual, no one taught me that except you. But we may have touched on something, learned on something, but it doesn't mean that it was integrated. So I love how you started like the last year, I've been going through this journey. And all of us should be going through that journey of I do not, I cannot believe that I know everything and I'm qualified for everything. Yet not everything should be, you know what? I don't know that. Let me refer you out, versus like, let me go learn about it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04:

That's my biggest thing when you said how can we fix this? I think it is not staying in your own lane. Yeah. Right. Because I think about that, you know, I think this idea started to come to fruition. Work with a lot of clients with EDS. And it's a really sort of hot diagnosis right now. But I don't know how many of my clients, probably all of them, have to fight for that diagnosis.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Right. Have to jump through all these hoops to have a doctor get, you know, tell them one, I don't understand why. It's not like there's this treatment we have for EDS. So even getting the diagnosis doesn't change these people's lives other than they now have an answer. But when they go to different doctors, like if they have a GI issue and they're like, hey, I likely have EDS, I'm, you know, going through the process of getting diagnosed, the the GI doctor sort of like, okay, like doesn't consider what that means for my lane. And I think as mental health providers, we're the same way. Yeah. Someone comes to your office and says, says, I have EDS, I have an autoimmune disease, I have this. How does that impact their mental health? And do you know? And if you don't, Google it. Or crying out loud start somewhere. Or just ask them, how does this impact your mental health?

unknown:

Yeah.

Maria:

Which by the way, I don't know how you feel that yet, but I I will disclose having to deal with that issue. Like I can tell you that I go through picks of my mental health, and I tend to withdraw. And all of you who are in my circle know that when I go quiet, I'm not doing so hot. And and that's usually my picks because my autoimmune system dictates everything in my life.

Liliana:

And that just right? Go ahead. Yeah, I think that that's a pretty typical response. But I'm also seeing then of the younger generation, this almost like badge of honor and pride, and they're very vocal about their, I don't know, suffering is the right word, but like their their ability to overcome that, right? And still exist. Where I'll speak for myself and my generation, we were told to suppress all of that, right? Like you're, you know, you're supposed to mask really just being female. But like, you know, if you're in pain, you're still supposed to show up to work and be just as productive, if not more, than your male counterparts. And I see that shifting. I also see with this generation, and I think we've talked about it before on the podcast about like this this self-diagnosis trend that has really kind of taken off with the boom of social media, TikTok, especially, I think, in my experience.

unknown:

Yeah.

Liliana:

Just like how do you feel like that either feeds into this or perpetuates it?

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, I think it, I don't like either of those words, I guess. So like I think it is putting information in the hands of clients and patients that were was always hoarded by medical and mental health providers prior. And I think too, it's hard starting to highlight, you know, that this is a lived experience. This isn't a list of diagnostic criteria, especially when, you know, like we look at we'll say ADHD, right? The ADHD diagnostics criteria is almost for like an eight-year-old boy.

Maria:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Eight-year-old white boy. Yeah, white boy. And so I think, you know, our clients are able to access other people's lived experiences. And it's like, wait, no, my ADHD shows up in this way or that way, or my autism shows up in this way or that way. And again, like EDS, we're now seeing more and more, you know, people with EDS are also meeting diagnostic criteria for autism, and then heavy in the you know, endo community. And so, like, these people are now having answers. Yeah, you know, for and I think too looking back on grad school, where they're like, sometimes we don't need to label things, yeah. Yes, and it's amazing how much relief my clients get with an EDS diagnosis, yeah, just the diagnosis. Yeah, again, there's no treatment for it, there's no drug, there's nothing they can have for, but they're like, Oh, this makes sense now.

Liliana:

Well, it also makes it real, especially for females, right? Where when we are given a label or a diagnosis, we then can feel like, oh, I'm not crazy.

Maria:

Thank you.

Liliana:

This isn't just in my head, this isn't me just being weak. This isn't just me, you know, whatever the narratives are that females are have been having to absorb, being even if the diagnosis is there's no treatment for this. I can't tell you how this is going to play out, I can't tell you it's gonna get any better, but I can tell you that this is what it is, gives such a sense of relief. And then community, and when you start to find others who have similar experiences or diagnoses, again, it just helps us feel like oh, I'm not crazy, I'm not making this up, and I'm not alone in this, right? And it's not a character flaw. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with me personally that is causing me to behave in this way or struggle in this way, and I think that's really, really important. And I love the the message, and I hadn't thought about it, even in my own experience about like the gatekeeping. But yeah, I mean, if you think about you know, just your own physical health journey, how many times do you get referred out to a specialist? And the testing and the results mean nothing, they don't ever come back, they're never followed up on there, and it's just like, well, you didn't check all the boxes, so I can't tell you anything.

Maria:

I can tell you right now, I'm going through my third referral, put a monologist. I love you. And now I'm going to head a neck surgery. So my kids are like panicking. I was like, why? And I was like, because they're trying to figure shit out. And medicine, it's like playing a game. They do not have answers. We were raised to believe that doctors knew they were experts. And what I've been learning in especially the last three, four years, going to four years now, is that doctors actually don't know. They are doing the best guess possible, and they are trained to be proactive, not reactive, not proactive.

Liliana:

Yeah, right.

Maria:

Right. So, which is the same thing when when clients come to us, it it's like this is happening to me. But even the invitation that you have, Jessica, in regards to look, you're finding information now online. It doesn't matter the format, the platform. And you're like, wait, that's me. There's a possibility. You're organizing it for me, and you're giving me words so that I can go and share. And then you go to this expert, we're gonna call them that for now. And if you air quotes, right, air quotes for those that can't see. And they go either to a medical doctor or to a mental health therapist psychotherapist. And now we get to decide if we trust you on what you're sharing with us, and then we may be trained and using assessments. Hopefully, you were, please tell me that you were lied to me, and you use an assessment, which is still their check boxes, and then if you don't fit, I get to decide based on a score if it's true or not for you versus what you the invitation that you're doing just ago, which is hey, can you take into account more than just that check box? And going back to Maria, especially for females, we have to go and justify it and prove what we go through and don't have to do that. Comment on it, but I keep asking questions to all the males that I know and they are not told to lose weight as the first one, which I'm really pissed, and they don't have to prove their symptoms, they automatically are trust. We females are not, we have to prove, and depending on the generation that you came, either you believe that you're crazy, so you should suppress it, or even if you have it, depending on what culture you're coming to coming from, you may suppress it because you don't want to be a bothersome is your job to take care of others, you shouldn't take any or right. So we have all these things that so I love that you're naming systems, social location, self-diagnosis, like can we the invitation is I I guess from for from you, Jessica, is uh can we expand our lens, right?

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, I would say, excuse me, can we shake off this need? I I don't know if it's a mask because to me it always feels more like a suit, like that was handed to us in grad school and sweater. Yeah, like can we shake it off and just be transparent and authentic and curious, you know, like this isn't kind of the topic we're focused on at the moment, but like social location, we conceptualize clients through this, but it are we sharing our own social locations for our clients so they can immediately place us too, because grad school is gonna be like, no, you don't do that. You do not share that information, you know, unless like you can't help it and be like, oh, like clearly I'm white, let's address it. But are we addressing your you know, social economic status? Are we addressing where you grew up? Are we like all these things impact how safe? I think that's the word I want there. The client feels with us.

Maria:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And if we're providing a safe environment and a safe space, you know, like and you I'm guessing every listener wants that, then how are you checking yourself for microaggressions because you still practice within a medical model?

Liliana:

Yeah. Yeah, because we're not just talking about like we've we've talked about like the gender difference and bias, but you're also, I mean, you're also speaking this as like an ableist. Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Mm-hmm. And the masking that comes with, you know, ableism and right, you two have talked a ton about dynamic disabilities. And you know, I think back when, and this really got highlighted for me, like with my migraines. So moving weirdly, moving across country, rebranding, and all that stuff surprisingly increased my migraines. And you know, damn it. And so I ended up in urgent care four times in 2025. And again, I would like I started using urgent care because I was like, dang it, I need to get back to the office. This will be the fastest way to do that. And I mean, don't even tell me. I can tell you each visit how what was gas or what gaslighting I received and what was gatekeeped kept. That's the word probably from me. But yeah, like the ableism in all of that, you know, and to not be considerate of, you know, like how your clients can, I guess, even cancel or can not have to hear, oh, did you have a bad night's sleep? When they say, Oh, I'm tired, that you understand fatigue, that you understand dynamic disabilities, that you understand the mental load that comes from having a chronic condition. Right. I don't just have migraines. I have to have make sure my migraine meds are every single place I'm at, right? In various bags, I have to make sure I have something to eat so I can take my meds at any point. Like the mental load that I'm constantly putting out just because I have this diagnosis.

Maria:

Yeah.

Liliana:

Well, it's an unseen mental load, right? It's like if you're invisible carrying this around, and nobody else would necessarily know, right? Maybe the closest people in case they're, you know, you do have an episode and they know how to help you. But it yeah, it's a lot of work that goes unseen and unrecognized. It takes up mental space, it's physically exhausting, it's also expensive depending on what kind of supports you need in various places.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, weirdly, insurance doesn't cover most of the things people with chronic conditions need.

Maria:

Amazing. Amazing, right? Three of us discussed in a group in regards to the decisions. Do you go to urgent care or do you go to emergency room? Oh, there is the copay for urgent care. This is the copay for emergency room. And then when you go in and most people do not understand the insurances because they don't read. I I get it. Um I had to but the majority of things are not cover or they're cover cover in a percentage. So you end up with a huge bill. So that's why most people are like I cannot afford to take care of myself. Right. And then you're naming the dynamic disability most therapists are not trained and refuse to get trained, refuse to attend those trainings because they believe they don't work with that population. And how will they know if they don't ask questions?

SPEAKER_04:

Right. You know and talking about urgent care right Liliana, you will have a drastically different experience in urgent care than I will. Right? Your gatekeeping gaslighting is different because the system was developed by racist, sexists or like people. And again so are our systems, right? Like we as providers have to recognize the system was created in these isms ableism, sexism, racism. Yes.

Maria:

And we're bringing that to the table. Yeah. For all of you who are there just so you know my own therapist told me carry a badge with your name and your title so that they will treat you differently because for all of you who are out there, not only am I migrant, but I was born in Mexico. So double whammy for me. But then my husband made me aware when you're going to urgent care, which by the way when I go to urgent care or when I go to the emergency room, the last thing I think about is do I have lipstick? How am I dressed? And my husband is have you noticed the difference and how they treat you depending on how you present yourself. Absolutely. And when you're in pain and you cannot have access to your frontal cortex and if you don't verbalize it, if you don't use keywords, they will not attend to you. So the three of us are sharing with all of you listeners that the medical system it's so fucked up and it's getting worse thanks to our current administration. Let's also put it in here it's not good or bad it's just what it is. It's very political so that is impacting us in our mental health field because we tend to consume that information. So unless you are going and you are reading you are attending consultation with Jessica you are you know going and getting on trainings then you do not know what you don't know and that's not acceptable.

SPEAKER_04:

No, it's not and that's what's starting to bug me now is in this day and age you know I'll get angry because it's like this isn't acceptable. Right. Like we as clinicians know these things. Yeah you know right and you describing like how you have to spend energy to show up in urgent care ERs, right? Our clients are putting forth effort or you know my chronically ill clients are putting forth effort. How are they showing up in the room? Are they sick enough? Are they healthy enough? And if they show up looking one way are you still going to ask them about their condition and their symptoms are you just going to assume they're fine because they look a specific way and the microaggression that shows up in that right oh you look fine today so you must be fine. And I'm going to decide that for you. Yeah like that's not acceptable. Like we can do better.

Liliana:

We're capable of better. Yeah well yeah and then I mean it is it is a system right and it's a system that we have to dismantle while working inside of it. And part of that is by educating ourselves and knowing better means we are then held to be doing better. Right. We can't just be like oh okay I took I took one training and now I'm I'm aware this is this is work. This is the work that needs to get done. And there are small pieces that you you know can walk away with from today is like you know consider the whole person in front of you and not just how they appear physically in your space but be curious about what else might be going on with them physically that might be impacting them mentally and vice versa right we know this is true. It's it is all interconnected and yes I think it is really it's really sad but it is important that we help our patients and our clients to learn the system that they're having to navigate and learn how to use it to their benefit right giving them the language I know for myself like I have a I am searching for a new internal medicine provider. I know I need to show up looking a certain way right I will be showing up without my wig I will be showing up without my makeup because if I show up looking like I do this morning they're not going to believe a word out of my mouth they're going to tell me I have anxiety and to go back to my therapist right but I have to show up looking the way they expect someone quote unquote sick to look like to be taken seriously and Jessica you're absolutely right it's happening in in mental health practice as well we're not listening we're not seeing beyond what's physically there or reported to us right and I think too you know may many listeners may be thinking well I work within a system that takes insurance and I have to do there are plenty of providers now on social media that are literally addressing this is how you note this for insurance companies like not commit insurance fraud but how to meet the qualifications or the minimal qualifications for insurance companies while also doing good work with clients and you know and I think too of like showing up sick I mean I did the same way like when last time I went to urgent care I mean I was already in like sweatpants that were too big for me but I was like I'm not changing I need to look in pain and then yeah my clients you know some of them show up that way some of them are experiencing pain where they have to stop you know do their breath work you know in order to start back up.

SPEAKER_04:

And again like I make space for that I'm not going are you okay like I'm not overly parenting them I'm just like take your time we've got this you know it's safe to do that. You don't have to hide it.

Maria:

And then what are the things that you can have in your office if if you have if you provide in person because if in telehealth I tend to ask my clients like how we're gonna prep for your session what is it that you need to have around you not only privacy but do you need something to be drinking like a tea do you need the warming blanket do you need like what do you need around you and and now in my office guess what I have I have like those things that we can put in the microwave for so that they can be comfortable I have this like these blankets these tea like these things because they learn the more that I learn it's not about mothering the more that I learn the more it's like how can I provide comfort for you while you are here so that you have access to your frontal cortex for whatever we need to process and whatever we need to integrate because if you don't have that there's no safety there's no space come on people we can do better.

SPEAKER_04:

And like you said safety right that they know they can move around like they can walk through the house like I hear clinicians who are like no you have to be sitting and you have to can't have like I have one client who's telling me about her partner's therapist who if she were to walk into the background like there's a you know you can see all the way through the house and so she's in the background and like that therapist like we can't talk because there's somebody in the space I'm sorry there are my clients are adults I'm gonna trust you know and I know my clients and I'm gonna be like hey if your partner walks there's plenty times like I wave like no it's like gauge it you know like why are we treating our clients like children who have to sit still who can't move because then they're gonna show up that way there the people pleaser is gonna show up that way.

Maria:

And we treat therapy like a secret something to be ashamed and I don't like that. Once I understood like no we're we're not doing that. Mm-hmm.

Liliana:

Well people should the invitation is to show up how you need to show up not how you feel like I need you to show up right show up authentic to yourself yeah not show up with that people pleasing mask on or the not a top interview that you have to come and impress me.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes that's a good good example it's like a job interview. Yeah and are you creating an environment which is a the your clients feel like it's a job interview that they have to please you that they have to be perfect that they have to achieve something to do therapy right.

Maria:

Yeah it's funny when I was uh because I think about not only the questions that I have in my intake but I think about my office. So I always thought okay do I have a ramp if someone has a wheelchair can the door open enough for them to come in if they're gonna sit is this comfortable but like they're not gonna be out where they're gonna need help getting up like I started thinking of all those things. Why? Because I was taking fucking trainings from the beginning. So I was looking for what is it that I need to have in this office and I did a podcast where I realized when I was talking to the person who was interviewing me that not everyone thinks that way. So then I started thinking why do I think that way is it the life experience is it the people that I surround myself with is it the trainings that I'm often seeking is it the consultation groups that I go look for and then interview like what's your background like who's gonna be part of this what am I gonna learn from if I'm paying this is the migrant person right like if I'm paying I'm getting something from here well and I think for I I know for myself a lot of my own adjustments came from my own lived experience right that's where it started for me which is why now we are very vocal about it because one I think there are still a lot of practitioners that aren't honest with themselves about their own needs.

Liliana:

Yes you know maybe because you don't have all of the markers for the diagnosis but you're still like you'd be more comfortable in a better chair or you'd be more comfortable with a heating pad or an ice pack throughout the day or whatever all the lights off. Or I think there are clinicians who are still not honest with themselves and are trying to fit the quote unquote therapist mold.

Maria:

Yeah.

Liliana:

Which then also leads them to not consider that for their clients right and my hope is that you don't have to have the livid experience to then be aware and do better for yourself and for your clients.

SPEAKER_04:

Right because it's internal ableism absolutely exactly and so if you're internalizing it you're externalizing it. So you're passing on those same messages to your clients that you have to suck it up buttercup and push through it.

Maria:

Yeah I was I talked to a trainer a trainer I'm just gonna put it there we're not give identifiers and they were telling me things will not change until until the older generation dies and then we can do better. And I thought first that's sad. And two if you're not doing the fucking work what guarantees that we're gonna change it when you are still obeying and applying what the older generation expects you to do. So if you're not the bridge in between these generations no change is going to come so you're lying to yourself when you're telling yourself that so showing up authentic showing up to question systems learning I love that you named this again when you said like no no no no there's too many therapists doing social media which I enjoy teaching us or giving us tips in regards to how to make these adaptations how to work in different settings so there's no no excuses for us not to do better. Yeah especially with the amount of technology the information I'm sorry that is out there thanks to the technology that we have so Jessica I think that we can keep talking because we talk about ableism we talk about in a way social justice we talk about dynamic disabilities we talk about the medical model we talk about self-diagnosis like there were so many nuggets on this podcast I was like yeah we're gonna have to continue talking about this yeah so how can listeners who out there who they're like oh my god I can do better I want to do better okay don't say it with that voice like say I can do better don't like oh you can do better first of all find your voice with your full chest you know because I think of the quote that I got in the AMFT training that I sent both of the two of you right like we aren't just exploring ideas these are not ideas these are not vague thoughts so we can no these are we're engaging with real people's lived experience beautiful yeah these are your clients whether you realize it or not because if they're not then your clients are masking yes yeah and so yeah I I think simply if you if it feels safer you know because we're coming in like you know guns ablaze in here and you might be like oh it's a bit intimidating they're gonna judge me that's fair right like I get that that can be intimidating so if you know reaching out to one of us isn't where your life path is at the moment then go on social media find these clinicians who are doing these messages but critically think yeah right critically think if you're like wait how does this idea apply to fill in the autoimmune disease right and if the person teaching can't pivot can't adjust can't be like that's a good question then move on because if they're also not thinking critically then you know they're not going to encourage you to think critically no and that perpetuates perpetuates the ableism yes yeah I love that we're starting the new system talking about ableism right it's not going away and I'm I really mean this because I do come strong that's that's my personality everything I go through I go through like the Kool-Aid commercials back in the 90s busted to the wall Kool-Aid man that's like my mantra like fuck it let's go for it and not everyone has that template and and and I get it and it and it doesn't come from a judgmental place even though as a Virgo everything sounds like I like it's a judgment from my part but but yeah no you're absolutely right like where can you start what is it that is financially feasible for you what is it like talking from all the locations that we have who do you have access to and if that's not it who do you know that you trust or do you like to get to know them I was listening to a podcast yesterday by the way where it says everyone goes to business not really thinking about who they go they choose as a partner they spend less and less time when in reality that's the person that you really need to know. So they sort of like asking I was like yeah consultation groups are exactly the same I am trusting you to have my back if I get called or if you get called I am willing to go batch for you. So who do you know? And in that for you to form a consultation group if finances are an issue so that you can start challenging yourself by reading a book by listening to a podcast by reaching out as that consultation one time group like where can you start right it doesn't have to be us but again Jessica because you do have a great rebranding is it okay if we include your information so that people can reach out to you as you are expanding your lens and I love this about you and thank you for keep challenging me because all of you Jessica is like have you taken this revocation and I'm like not yet it's in my next as soon as I finish this semester I'm gonna do that in between semesters I'm gonna cram these 10 hours of CEs.

SPEAKER_04:

You know and I think too to add of course you can add my information but to add to what you were just saying you know if you find yourself nodding along to this podcast if you find yourself drawn to the energy and yet feel like you can't like I don't even care what the can't is just something stops you know and to just sit and be like what about your system doesn't feel safe to explore these places right like it may be where you work because it's a very strict model. It could be because you know you're surrounded by colleagues that might not be open to these sorts of ideas. You know, as I was talking was it yesterday in our chat about moving to Iowa like I had to sit in the uncomfortable since moving from Colorado to Iowa you know that not all the spaces I now interact with are ready for these conversations and I have to you know recognize that and I can't Kool-Aid man my way through them. So and it's okay. So if there's something where you're like yes but maybe sit with the butt and just be like hey it's again not because your flaw is like not a character flaw or that you're somehow broken but maybe the systems you're in don't provide a safe place for you to explore these ideas.

Liliana:

I love that I love that we're starting the year off with that invitation and the invitation to sit with yourself and maybe be honest with your own internal ableism your own needs and how that maybe blurring the message to your own clientele.

Maria:

Beautiful beautiful way to start the year let's have invitations I have not replied to that text because I've been thinking about it and the reality is for all of you who are contemplating this conversation or others a lot of the times we have to go sit in these tables and listen to see where what door can I use in order to invite curiosity. It's not always like the Kool-A even though I really like those commercials and the idea is there is no growth unless we continue to go to places where these conversations have not been invited to right yeah so please keep doing your work keep um sharing what you know be open for what others are sharing with you and I love when you when when you share whatever you internalize you tend to externalize in projections so I love that that should be a shirt.

Liliana:

Yeah I love that Jessica thank you so much for coming back I know Liliana and I have the privilege of of getting to chat with you regularly uh not being recorded which is probably a good thing but I also know Liliana will very likely invite you to come back because I think we just have so much more to talk about I know you two are amazing like this is always a treat.

Maria:

We should record this I'm gonna record this and show it to my family.

Liliana:

Oh my gosh well Jessica best of luck to you in Iowa and on your new branding journey will definitely include your info information. So if this piqued some interest Jessica is someone you should you should know more about.

Maria:

Yeah follow her on social media the posts that you are sharing are just so lovely. I love all the tips. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Until next time. Bye. Bye.

Head Shot

Liliana Baylon, LMFT-S, RPT-S

Host
Head Shot

Maria Laquerre-Diego, LMFT-S, RPT-S

Host
Head Shot

Jessica Kruckeberg

Guest